This winter I intend to build a new race car. Cause of some rule advantages and cause I'm a Ford guy in a world of 99% Chevys I want to kick there **** in a Ford. But I need to make an engine choice I'm thinking I have 2 choices a 351W or a 400M.

The question is, I need a very cost effective way to make better then 500HP with a 400M. I need to do this with a single carb, iron heads, and preferably using pump super. Best way to go about this with a 400M? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? What parts do I need to search out? I'd prefer to use as many cheap old factory parts as possible.

For instance is there a rather common version out there that I can shave the heads, change the cam/chain, toss on a manifold and go? I got time, now is time to plan and search out deals on craigslist, just need to know what I'm looking for.

Edit, after some research maybe cleveland heads on a 400 would work pretty well?

 

Get with Tim Meyer for a set of Aussie Cleveland closed chamber heads and a set of his pistons. He usually goes with the dished for the cleveland heads, but with what you're wanting his flat-tops should do the trick. Compression will be north of 11 : 1 though. That with a custom roller cam, link bar roller lifters from Howards, good intake and exhaust should get you close.

Drag race? Mud? Circle track?

And it's a 400, no M

 

If you're looking for cheaper iron heads then depending on what form of racing I would source a set of Cleveland 4BBL heads, would be a lot cheaper than the Aussie heads. Start with the block and improve the oiling system, a lot of guys put flow restrictors in so the bottom end gets more oil, better off enlarging oil galleries for the bottom end and using HVHP oil pump along with an external feed for connecting the front and rear oil pressure ports.

REALLY need intended RPM range, Class rules/regs, weather you want to spend money or spend time modifying parts, ect, ect, ect

 

That sounds like a much pricier route then I'm willing to go. This is low budget and high contact.

Gearing mostly towards a stock figure 8 class and hoping to work up to also running super figure 8(outlaws) and maybe in the extreme street stock(bombers).

This sounds more my level, honestly the class doesn't need a whole lot of engine. We ran this year with a stock 83 pickup SBC 400 long block. It wasn't enough though and more is of course always better

So after more research I'm leaning towards something along the lines of a 400 with stock flat tops and Cleveland heads. Not sure what heads I'll find, and don't know the math and fitment details yet but that's why I'm here and doing my research.

RPM range needs to be wide, the speeds very a lot from 80 to 30 in a 17 second lap so no time to shift. This is part of why I need to lean towards more displacement but big blocks are just too big and heavy.

Rules are pretty wide open as far as engine goes, basically any iron American V8 with a single carb, mechanical fuel pump, and standard dizzy. There is a setback advantage to front dizzy, and a weight penalty for aluminum heads and/or block.

These days I got more time then money, I'd much rather spend time with a grinder then pay a machinist or buy pricey parts.

A roller cam is a thing to ponder, big bucks. Probably not on this go around, think I'll more likely build this one cheap.

So I think with these rules and this class a Ford guy with a 400/Cleveland mutt can kick **** in a world of 99% small block chevys. Up to 50 more cubics then most of the competition and MUCH better heads. Add in I can tell everyone I'm running a ford 400 gutless boat anchor truck engine and they'll freak when I pass them

I'll put this on my air cleaner


My first post was a little over the top saying I need 500HP, that's about the limit I'll ever be able to put to the ground in this class but I'd like to try and get as close as I can of course.

Edit, I just noticed it was you oldfordjunkie, you might know exactly what and where I'm looking to race. Will be almost all at evergreen speedway in Monroe. I've been the tech and pit for 3 guys running this last year and next year I want to kick there ****. IDK if you've been there but it's pretty relaxed on rules and classes, I actually want them to tighten up a bit. Also very high contact and rather low buck, a 50% attrition during a race both from contact and break downs is not uncommon.

The goal is to get going cheap with the basics and move towards a fast multi-purpose mustang based car. Preferably something I can toss lights and plates on and take on the road, or toss side boards on and race super figure 8. Many run the same car in 2 or even 3 classes there and nothing in the rules precludes a car that when the lights/mirrors etc are put back on and tires changed isn't otherwise street legal. A ticket magnet with welded doors all dukes of hazard style, but technically legal.



Between races I'll drive around all Eat My Dust style

 

Between the 2bbl or 4bbl heads is a bit of a toss up depending on trans an rear ratio.
Low gears and I'd go 4bbl and leave the ports and valves alone, higher gears I'd say the 2bbl heads and clean up the ports/bowls and a decent valve job. I know a little about Evergreen, both my grandfathers were dirt track racers out of monroe and one of them held Skagit's "Most rollovers in a crash" record for a LONG time. haha.

Anyway, I'd probably go 400 bottom 2bbl Cleveland heads with the ports opened a bit (mainly exhaust side) solid cam advertised for 2500-6000 range a Quality HPHV oil pump with at least the outer feed line and Performer intake with the divider cut out and runners port matched to the heads.

 

Forget stock pistons, and forget trying to find stock 1971 pistons. Here are your pistons, and they will work fine with stock heads:

TMeyer, Inc. Precision Automotive Machining

 

Your thinking along the same lines I am. I'm thinking 2bbl heads and a little grinding, better to error on the side of low end. That and easier to find and thus cheaper. I don't think I want to deal with the hassles of a solid cam, don't think it's worth it. Hydraulic just a choice if I want to pay for roller or not.

Manifold is a tough one, will have a taller deck and thus need a physically larger manifold then a 351C or spacers. One rule limit I didn't mention effects manifold choice, there is a 1" spacer limit so the manifold itself being taller is better. Edelbrock makes a rather large RPM Air Gap manifold for the 351C that looks like a good option. I think dual plane is a little better for what I'm after but want a large plenum, not sure how I'm gunna go about that.

Maybe, won't take a solid look at pistons till I get heads.


Who knows I might just find a used 400 and just run it to start. With this build in mind all depends on how this winter goes. I'm not sure how much time and money I'll have yet.

 

The reason I said a performer intake is you can get them cheap used.

Like I said, cut out the divider to open u the plenum, free easy mod.

 

See Tim Meyer's site concerning the modified cam bearings and block mod. Believe this to some degree mitigates the crap oiling circuits on these for very little outlay or machining-
For a fair chunk of coin you could get one of the new 351C blocks out of aussie. Brand spanker with good hi nickel iron and a proper mains priority oiling circuit. Can be siamesed and bored out past 400ci safely. all clevo externals will bolt on.

I dont know if I like the external oil feed line to equalise the oil galleries front to back. Taking oil from one end of the gallery and putting at the other. Doesnt cost much so nothing lost to try anyway.

Alsoi the opinion of HiPress vs Hivol oil pump. I went hi pressure with the moroso spring (it is also only a weekend streeter) over the hi vol and I can tell you you will get in fist fight (forum-wise) over this choice LOL.

Are you allowed to run roller rockers?

As for manifolds, it will cost quite a bit to fit an Air gap from a 351c on there once you factor in a spacer kit + the buy price of the air gap, especiially the good ones from Price (?)Motorsport. There are a lot of people that wish they did an air-gap for the 351m-400's.
Larger plenum but close to dual plane sounds like a Holley Street dominator all over.
Running one on my Galaxie and while they have an advertised low (i think 1500?) to 5500RPM, my package really starts to go once you get to 2500+. The C6 and 2.7 gears wont be doing it any favours there though.
Not around a lot though, but maybe a shot?

 

If you go 400 with 351c air gap need spacer plates and get the small ports and grind to fit. i did the big port and had to epoxy up intakes a little fit up nice. Have photos of 400 air gap 4v heads in albums. solid cam is worth the effort and make good torque and reliable. Any questions drop a message. Run solids for yrs and love it especially in low end torque application. check out my photos and you will see whats up!

 

Can do 351cleveland pistons but have to bush the con rods to smaller piston pin. Or just do some tim meyer pistons. definelty do the oiling upgrades to help on oil pressure and maintain oil pressure to crank mains. Very simple with Tim meyer cam bearing upgade! if you do the air gap intake your distributor will hit and have to cut out intake manifold to clear distributor. www.pricemotorsports.com sells a distributor extension to clear distributor to intake manifold. things that will come up. i ground out my intake for clearance not a big deal but kinda scary at first, not your normal procedure when doing a build.

 

Good info thanks but why would the intake not clear the dizzy?

Edit, so much extra height on the manifold makes the drivers front runner of the manifold hit the dizzy?

Ohh and given the cost of spacers I'd imagine that I'd make mine.

 

When using the 351c air gap. Have to buy spacer plates to compensate for 351c shorter deck height. when this happens i raises the intake and the front plate of intake is raised and hits the dizzy. Have to grind or dizzy extension. check out my photos, make sense.

 

. I'd suggest a Ford 400, preferably the ones made in 1970-1971 with better 2-bbl. heads without thermactor bosses in exhaust ports and better ports, with minidome TMI or 351C pistons, Summit cam/lifters (214/224 or 224/234), and add a 4-bbl. carb. to stock 2V intake that has the divider cut out... won't cost much, and you can decide after trying it if you need/can use more power than the close to 500HP/500 torque that combo would make...

 

poor boy build. 400 ford with dome 351 cleveland pistons and make sure all surfaces are flat. 268 comp cam hyd. performer intake and 650 to 750 cfm carb. stout combination. compression will be up and run 91 octane or better fuel. Good ignition!