Gooseneck question
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
From: Tri-Cities, TN
Gooseneck question
So we purchased a 34' enclosed gooseneck car hauler; 6000# axles (2) with a 12,000 GVW. So, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that would mean roughly, when fully loaded, that the truck would have about 2400# on the hitch, and the trailer would have 9600# on the axles. Seems odd compared to most of the trailers we have looked at, that with 6k axles the GVW is only 12k (most 10k GVW bumper pull trailers run 5200# axles, a lot of goosenecks I've looked at have 6k axles and a 14k GVW because of the weight on the hitch). Does this seem slightly odd to anyone else?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 200
From: southeast PA
Not really odd, they generally rate the trailer at what the axles are rated to, not figuring hitch load into the GVWR. The 14k gvwr trailers are using 7K axles. I have seen a few running 7k axles with a 15680 GVWR, figuring on 1680 on the truck, even thought that is a bit light on the pin for that trailer weight. One thing I've never seen is 6k axles on a 14k trailer, I'd call that underbuilding and cost cutting.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
From: Tri-Cities, TN
Not really odd, they generally rate the trailer at what the axles are rated to, not figuring hitch load into the GVWR. The 14k gvwr trailers are using 7K axles. I have seen a few running 7k axles with a 15680 GVWR, figuring on 1680 on the truck, even thought that is a bit light on the pin for that trailer weight. One thing I've never seen is 6k axles on a 14k trailer, I'd call that underbuilding and cost cutting.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 200
From: southeast PA
Yes it is. But I'd call it more of a safety factor I guess. The only trailers I have seen rated at 15680 were PJ goosenecks. Everyone else rates them to 14k with 7k axles. It makes sense to rate it that way, but also gives people the chance to overload the axles by not distributing the weight correctly.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
that would mean roughly, when fully loaded, that the truck would have about 2400# on the hitch, and the trailer would have 9600# on the axles.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,724
Likes: 74
From: Blue Hill Township
Yes it is. But I'd call it more of a safety factor I guess. The only trailers I have seen rated at 15680 were PJ goosenecks. Everyone else rates them to 14k with 7k axles. It makes sense to rate it that way, but also gives people the chance to overload the axles by not distributing the weight correctly.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
From: Tri-Cities, TN
I don't think that's right with only a 12k GVW. That takes into account the pin weight, does it not?
Trending Topics
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Where does that weight go when the loaded trailer is parked and disconnected from the truck? You are only taking into account the axles, yet the manufacturer has rated the trailer for 14k. Are you sure what size beams they have used? Are you going to warranty the trailer if someone overloads it based on your advice?
My point is, that weight isn't magically transferred as a point source to the hitch. It is supported by the frame between those axles and the truck (or jacks when parked) and the axles are only one factor.
My point is, that weight isn't magically transferred as a point source to the hitch. It is supported by the frame between those axles and the truck (or jacks when parked) and the axles are only one factor.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
The ratings aren't for a parked trailer. Also, you should avoid uncoupling a loaded gooseneck... that's what 5th wheels are for... jacks are for load support, not lift.
If you try to count the pin weight in the trailer weight you will end up counting it double when weighing your combination. Sure, you should check with your manufacturer... a 20,000# point load and a 1,000#/ft distributed load on a 20' trailer can show the same tongue and axle loadings, but the frame will be under different stresses.
If you try to count the pin weight in the trailer weight you will end up counting it double when weighing your combination. Sure, you should check with your manufacturer... a 20,000# point load and a 1,000#/ft distributed load on a 20' trailer can show the same tongue and axle loadings, but the frame will be under different stresses.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 200
From: southeast PA
I have to agree with MX727................ Axle weights are axle weights and GVWR is GVWR.
The front axle of my 13 F350 is 6000, and the rear axle is if I remember correct 9650. The GVWR is 14000. Legally, the truck is allowed to weigh 14,000, not 15,650.
The trailer is no different. It all by itself can weigh up to 14,000 (or 12k),the legal GVWR. Now, when hooked to the truck, yes some of the weight will be on the truck, there's no avoiding that.
You can't legally exceed GVWR of either unit, or the unit as a whole, even if it means you can't get the max capacity out of the axles.
I can't see any reason for not dropping a loaded goose. Mine sits with #2300 on the pin/jack all the time. It's a 10k jack. That's less than a third of the capacity of the jack and a pretty close pin weight for a fully loaded 14k trailer. Never been an issue.
The front axle of my 13 F350 is 6000, and the rear axle is if I remember correct 9650. The GVWR is 14000. Legally, the truck is allowed to weigh 14,000, not 15,650.
The trailer is no different. It all by itself can weigh up to 14,000 (or 12k),the legal GVWR. Now, when hooked to the truck, yes some of the weight will be on the truck, there's no avoiding that.
You can't legally exceed GVWR of either unit, or the unit as a whole, even if it means you can't get the max capacity out of the axles.
I can't see any reason for not dropping a loaded goose. Mine sits with #2300 on the pin/jack all the time. It's a 10k jack. That's less than a third of the capacity of the jack and a pretty close pin weight for a fully loaded 14k trailer. Never been an issue.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
pin weight and the weight on the jacks are not the same.
I've had to replace about a dozen jacks on gooseneck trailers that were repeatedly removed from pickups while loaded. Goosenecks have to actually raise, while 5th wheels can simply slide out. That is why you don't see any gooseneck semis or travel trailers.
You don't weigh a trailer alone. Pin weight is rear axle weight on the pickup, not weight on the trailer. The GVWR of the trailer goes into the calculation for the GCVWR. If you try to put the pin weight on the trailer, too, you count it twice. A pickup with a 8,800# GVWR connected to a trailer with a 20,000# GVWR can weigh 28,800# combined. You still have to keep the axles under their respective GVWR, but that allows 20,000# on the trailer axles, and 8,800# on the pickup axles combined.
I've had to replace about a dozen jacks on gooseneck trailers that were repeatedly removed from pickups while loaded. Goosenecks have to actually raise, while 5th wheels can simply slide out. That is why you don't see any gooseneck semis or travel trailers.
You don't weigh a trailer alone. Pin weight is rear axle weight on the pickup, not weight on the trailer. The GVWR of the trailer goes into the calculation for the GCVWR. If you try to put the pin weight on the trailer, too, you count it twice. A pickup with a 8,800# GVWR connected to a trailer with a 20,000# GVWR can weigh 28,800# combined. You still have to keep the axles under their respective GVWR, but that allows 20,000# on the trailer axles, and 8,800# on the pickup axles combined.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
Take this as an example... it's the first one I could find for a semi.
The axles are each set at 20,000. (40,000#)
The GVWR is 52,500# which would be extremely light for a semi using your method (only 12,500# on the tongue?!). Why? the tractor's drive axles are also 20,000# each, and the tractor has a GVWR which is added to the trailer GVWR to get the combination rating. (this may or may not be the same as the registered combination rating of 80,000#... darn bureaucrats).
Notice this tag also has a frame rating and a speed rating. You won't find these on gooseneck rating plates as they aren't designed quite the same. Semis are designed to carry around 40-50% tongue weight, and usually a distributed load.
The axles are each set at 20,000. (40,000#)
The GVWR is 52,500# which would be extremely light for a semi using your method (only 12,500# on the tongue?!). Why? the tractor's drive axles are also 20,000# each, and the tractor has a GVWR which is added to the trailer GVWR to get the combination rating. (this may or may not be the same as the registered combination rating of 80,000#... darn bureaucrats).
Notice this tag also has a frame rating and a speed rating. You won't find these on gooseneck rating plates as they aren't designed quite the same. Semis are designed to carry around 40-50% tongue weight, and usually a distributed load.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Take this as an example... it's the first one I could find for a semi.
The axles are each set at 20,000. (40,000#)
The GVWR is 52,500# which would be extremely light for a semi using your method (only 12,500# on the tongue?!). Why? the tractor's drive axles are also 20,000# each, and the tractor has a GVWR which is added to the trailer GVWR to get the combination rating. (this may or may not be the same as the registered combination rating of 80,000#... darn bureaucrats).
Notice this tag also has a frame rating and a speed rating. You won't find these on gooseneck rating plates as they aren't designed quite the same. Semis are designed to carry around 40-50% tongue weight, and usually a distributed load.
The axles are each set at 20,000. (40,000#)
The GVWR is 52,500# which would be extremely light for a semi using your method (only 12,500# on the tongue?!). Why? the tractor's drive axles are also 20,000# each, and the tractor has a GVWR which is added to the trailer GVWR to get the combination rating. (this may or may not be the same as the registered combination rating of 80,000#... darn bureaucrats).
Notice this tag also has a frame rating and a speed rating. You won't find these on gooseneck rating plates as they aren't designed quite the same. Semis are designed to carry around 40-50% tongue weight, and usually a distributed load.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
It's not an error.
When you weigh a combination you have weights for steering axle, drive axle(s), and trailer axle(s). The weight on the trailer axle(s) must stay below the GVWR of the trailer, and within the GAWR of the respective axle. For instance you cant put 20,000# on the front axle of a 20,000# GVWR gooseneck with two 10,000# axles. The pin weight is not part of the trailer weight.
By the way, do you know how GVWR is determined if there is no GVWR posted on a trailer? First it is the lesser of the sum of the GAWRs or the sum of the tire ratings. Second, if these don't exist for some reason, it is the actual loaded weight when taken from a combination.
When you weigh a combination you have weights for steering axle, drive axle(s), and trailer axle(s). The weight on the trailer axle(s) must stay below the GVWR of the trailer, and within the GAWR of the respective axle. For instance you cant put 20,000# on the front axle of a 20,000# GVWR gooseneck with two 10,000# axles. The pin weight is not part of the trailer weight.
By the way, do you know how GVWR is determined if there is no GVWR posted on a trailer? First it is the lesser of the sum of the GAWRs or the sum of the tire ratings. Second, if these don't exist for some reason, it is the actual loaded weight when taken from a combination.