The company I work for has an '07 F250 with 155000 miles. It started with a CEL code that could be the Cam Pos. Sensor bank 2 or VCT solenoid. I changed the CPS and ti seemed better for a short time. Then it got the similar code for bank 1. Did the same repair. Same results. Then the code was for bank 1. Changed VCT solenoid. Same results. I took it to the dealer and they changed bank 1 VCT. After a few miles the same results. Now they say they need $2000 to do exploratory surgery. They claim it's the timing gear and tensioner. The weird part, to me least is that it starts and runs fine for a few miles and then idles rough, very rough! An independent shop says they've run into this twice before and the only solution is a long block. They claim the cam journals are worn and it's losing oil pressure on the top-end causing the cams to retard. Any help?

 

Alan: I don't buy the $2k for exploratory surgery nor do I think it needs a heart transplant. I had an intermittent miss on one of my super-duty gassers with the 5.4L 3v tried various fixes myself to get rid of the codes but it was a persistent miss with PO300 and PO306. Short of the story, I got so frustrated I took it to a dealer to diagnose the issue and got the same story; "cam phasers, worn cam, you need a long block buddy" I got good help from the forum on things to try but in the end perseverance and diagnostics led me to a viable fix/repair. Do you wrench on this thing for your company? Is it something you have time to play with or is it a must have it running tomorrow? If you've got the time, you can work through it-lot's of good help on this forum!

When you scan it what codes are coming up? VCT's should give you one code and cam pos sensors another if memory serves. It all sounds extremely complicated, but it's not. Do you have accurate service records on the truck? You might think it silly but going through and checking things like fuel filter, cleaning mass air flow sensor, cleaning throttle body, last air filter/oil filter service can add up to hard to diagnose ghost like issues.

Good luck with it, post back when you can, and hopefully you can work through it and save yourself considerable coin.
Patrick

 

Thanks for the reply. I've inadvertantly got this issue posted on 2 different threads so I'm confusing myself. Anyway, I have some time to try things on this truck. I"m wondering if there is a downloadable wiring diagram for the PCM inputs? On another thread ait was advised that the wiring be traced but without cutting all the sheathing it would be pretty tough to do. The way the problem comes and goes still leads me to believe it's not mechanical. This morning I drove the truck about 6 miles on surface streets and then it started shaking at an idle. The rpm dropped to less than 500 and the CEL light started flashing. When I attempted to raise the idle it was unresponsive at first then it started responding normally and the CEL was steadily on. The code is P012 indicating cam retarded bank 2. The fuel, air and oil filter have all been changed less than 1000 miles ago.

 

Check for excessive crankshaft endplay. They had a problem with 2007 thrust bearings failing causing the crank to walk. You could pull the oil pan just to rule it out. If everything checks ok then Ford has updated VCT solenoids for the problem. The part number is 8L3Z-6M280-B

 

I'm curious , what brand oil filters have you been using?

 

I double checked the VCT's and the one I installed was the same part # as mentioned in an earlier post. The original and both replacement VCTs read 7.9-8.0 ohms. I looked for any sludge in the oil gallery in the VCT chamber and found none. I'm still leaning towards an electrical prob. as opposed to mechanical. It always runs fine cold. It continues to run fine for as many as 75 miles on some occaisions. Other times it starts with the bad idle & CEL within a few miles. Still getting the P0012 code.

 

Interesting that it runs well when cold, one could make the argument that once the oil warms and thins out that it may be dropping oil pressure. I've not done an oil pressure test on one of mine, but that should be a fairly easy test to perform. Might give you some answers. Did you give any thought to Longbeds suggestion on CS endplay? Have you disconnected the VCT connectors first thing on a cold start and driven it to check for any difference in operation with them unplugged? Also might check the connectors themselves for good tight fit and look at the wiring going to the vtc's to make sure it's not chaffed or damaged in some way. Sorry I'm not a lot of help on this Alan, hopefully someone will chime in and get you on the right track.

 

I appreciate all advice on this issue. After a few mile drive it started idling very poorly but when restarted twice it ran fine again. There was no cool down period so the thinning oil wouldn't be a factor.I've been trying to track down the wiring diagram to find the other end. The connectors seem ok at the VCT and there is voltage present via the common orange/white wire.

 

I had a similar problems, although it wasn't idling rough, but would run rough sporadically after the engine was warm.

I have a 2006 F-350 with the 5.4l engine. Sometimes when cruising, or when starting to move from a dead stop, the engine would start sputtering and coughing like it was going to die on me. No CEL or other lights came up.

Took it to the dealer; they replaced a bad manifold and catalytic converter which they though was plugged up due to the bad manifold and was affecting the back pressure. Still had the problem after they did that though.

Took it back again and they ended up replacing a bad spark plug and coil; that fixed it and it runs real smooth now.

About three years ago, the engine was also running rough under hard acceleration. At that time, I ran ethanol cleaner stuff through the gas tank for a few months and it cleared that up.

Just passing this along in case it can help you with your issues.......

 

O.K. So in theory we don't have an oil pressure problem, connectors to the vct solenoids are good and voltage is present. Here's a link that might help you further:

Code P0012 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1) and yet another from the forum here:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...iagnosing.html

and one final post that might be of help to you:
Code P0012 - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

Just trying to help, and hope you find it useful. I did tons of research on my miss condition and eventually found a solution.

 

You still need to check the hot oil pressure and crank endplay. It doesn't take long to do. I work at a Ford dealer and have seen many 2007s with this symptom and most have had bad thrust bearings.

 

The end play is .010". According to the manual I have that's the upper limit. I checked the voltage for the VCT's at the PCM connector before and during a rough idle episode and it didn't vary. I determined that the plug is the nearest the center of the truck and the d/s VCT is top row 2nd wire from furthest right facing the plug when installed in PCM. The p/s wire is next to it (furthest right). Is there an oil gallery plug in the head to test top end oil pressure? The gauge never varies. When the engine is running it is a little above the halfwway mark on the gauge.

 

There is a plug at the back of the head but its a PITA to get to. The gauge is just a dummy gauge it doesn't read actual pressure.

 

Alan, great diagnostics on taking the time to follow the wiring all the way back to the PCM. Your feedback will help others who might encounter similar problems! I'd follow longbeds' lead and ck the CS end play and hot oil pressure. Might even PM him and ask for specific steps to get you there. Sounds like those possibilities should be ruled out, even if it's a pain the butt to do so.

 

Longbed, thanks for your input, your sig suggests you know more than a little bit about what your saying. What kind of time is involved in dropping the pan to ck CS endplay? Steps to doing it? ditto for the oil pressure test?

Reps your way for your time!
Pat