The F1 I bought already had a 350 in it (I know, I know...) that ran, but the compression was low on half the cylinders so I had it completely rebuilt. Flat top pistons and an RV cam should give it a little more go, and it sounds great. I am glad that I spent the money (also on a limited budget) because it really does run great. Now if I can just finish the rest of it.
Congrats on getting yours done, it should last for years!

 

Well, a little update...or maybe a down date, since there's not much in the way of good news to share, and no pics.

We're at a standstill again.

About a week ago, I was putting in the pistons and torquing down the connecting rods and one of the brand new ARP bolts snapped. All the others torqued down fine; first to 24lbs b/c that's what the shop's printout said, then to 35lbs because that's what the ARP slip said the new bolts should be torqued to.

Thankfully, within 24hrs the shop had gotten a new set of ARP bolts and just gave me one replacement and I gave them the broken one. Got back making progress.

I hit a couple snags with the new power brake booster. That's really a project that warrants its own time frame. It's not particularly difficult mind you. But measuring and cutting and bending and flaring new brake lines, re-wiring the stop light switch, bleeding the system, etc. is really just time consuming.

I took yesterday as my day off and got the brake system all finished off and ready to go. Then I lowered the truck and started putting the rockers on. The bottom end was all buttoned up. No need to crawl under the truck again. The heads and Intake were on. Water Pump on. Install the rockers and pre-oil to make sure things are working right. Then I could put the valve covers on, drop the carb on and be ready for my buddy to swing by after work to help me put the front clip on. Attach the radiator and we'd be ready to test fire. Yeah...no.

I put all the rockers on the left head, and they torqued to 20lbs. (My specs say 17-24). Put all the rockers on the right head, and when I got to the one the shop had to replace it just spun...never made it to 20lbs, and as I tried to get the nut to back off using a prybar for a little back pressure, the stud just came right out.

In 69 they were press in studs. The original was stripped. The shop broke their puller trying to get it out. Then they found a press in stud to replace it as a threaded stud supposedly could not be had except in an expensive set, and the $$$ meter was already running faster than it does at the gas pump!

I took the stud into the machine shop...made it just before closing. Held it up and they pretty much lost all words in their vocabulary that had more than four letters. But they're supposed to be searching out a threaded stud so that I can tap my head (already installed of course) and thread a new stud down with some loctite.

At best it will be a few days.

Lets see...I suppose I could pack the bearings...



It's no wonder so many projects get bogged down and never finished. I haven't had to do anything major to my truck in years. Props to everybody who keeps pushing forward.

Jim

 

One step forward....three steps back

Those little things sure get frustrating. About all you can do is try and maintain your sense of humor and keep plugging away at it. You'll get there eventually.

Bobby

 

I had the same thing happen when I assembled my 351w. One of the ARP bolts snapped while torquing. I took them out and used some OEM bolts instead. I have a nice set here with 15 bolts and nuts!!

 

Hey Jim,
Our 351W chewed right through the not case hardened rods installed
by the experts doing the rebuild. Grrrr... Pulled them all & flushed everything put magnets in the oil pan to catch debris - held my breath & reinstalled case hardened rods... I feel your frustration...

Ben in Austin
1950 F1

 

Well, it just starts to make me nervous about the other work the shop did. They're the only place in town which tends to mean one of two things IME; they either do whatever work they feel like because a guy would have to hassle with driving into the city (err the next biggest town about 35min away), OR they do great work to keep local business. The guys in the shop are all pretty young (30's)...no old timers back there. But, if I'd had these problems with a shop 35min away it'd be over an hour's drive to deal with each issue.

Any little thing that might not be absolutely perfect is beginning to get me paranoid. Did that cam turn freely enough? Were the bores done right? Were the valves done right? Will the stock push rods hold up with the new valve springs like the shop said they would??? A whole host of paranoid thoughts start flying through my head. If I could get the dang thing up and running that'd help a lot.

The manager of the shop called yesterday and said he'd found a thread in stud for me. So it looks like this evening I'll be tapping that hole and applying lock tite. Man I hope it works. The anniversary deadline is less than four weeks away and I'd really like to have stretched it's legs and worked out any bugs before going on a three day cruise!

Here's hoping!

Jim

 

Hey sorry to hear about all your problems, but alas working on these trucks is never as easy as we think at first. I'm sure you have done it before but when you tap the holes have grease or vasisline on the tap to catch any debre. Sorry about my spelling I have dileiwhatever.

 

I started working on cars cause I couldn't even spell skool, I though it 1 "o" not 2. Heheh

 

Well, there've been some ups, and there've been some downs. July 3rd is the day we'll be leaving for our anniversary trip. It seems TOO close right about now.

After the rocker stud fiasco, I was able to clean out the hole, tap in a new stud and get things back together. It ran, but it ran like crap. I had to advance the timing way out in order to get it to run at all, adjust the carb way out to get it to stay running, and then it sucked air back up the tail pipes.

Come to find out, the cam they sold me uses the 351w firing order. Woulda been good to know! So I swapped the firing order and that brought the timing back a ways and the carb back closer to normal. But it still wasn't running right and was still sucking air back up the tail pipes.

So we talked about valves. I spent a large chunk of change on new valves and seats and springs, and of course the shop is confident they got it all right. Apparently there was a 69 mustang with a 302 in the shop at the same time mine went in, and it's running like a top.

So they asked about valve adjustment: According to my handy manual and everything I've read online positive stop rockers are tightened down to 20ish lbs. and that's it. They said they lashed the other 302's valves in like they were adjustable. Said the cam they got meant it had to be done that way. So I gave it a try. And I got it running great!

Backed her down the drive, and out up the block. Got around to the far side of the block and lifters were beginning to peck, and it was backfiring up the carb on two cylinders. Brought it home, thanking God the whole way that I could coast downhill to the house, and took the valve covers off.



Yeah, being off your rocker's a bad thing no matter how you look at it. Despite what the machine shop tells me, there's really no way to get around positive stop rocker arms. If you google it you'll find stories of guys who had a stud snap off going down the highway because they double nutted the rocker up off the stop. I don't want to risk it. Best option is pushrod swap. So I called up Melling, who actually made the cam, to ask them if they had a recommendation for my application...might save me some trouble. According to them this particular series of cams is made to be a direct swap...change nothing but the cam and get the benefits of a better cam...same push rods, same rockers, etc. The cam has the same base circle as stock.

As I'm thinking through all of this I figure one or two things went wrong. A) The guys at the machine shop set the valve heights wrong and I'm going to have to spend $20ish and several hours measuring pushrod lengths, plus money to get new pushrods, get them installed, and hopefully go from there. B) if I got that timing chain one tooth off it "might" cause my issues. When I "lashed" in the valves I ran a compression test and got 140psi. That's on the low end of my book's chart, but the rings aren't seated yet either. I can't find a decent answer/opinion on that figure online (whether it's high or low for a fresh rebuild on a 302). So I'm planning on pulling the timing cover to double check the cam/crank alignment and hopefully find my problem, but if not, put one more possibility to rest.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I've got doubts about my little 2v carb feeding things with 30 over pistons and a bigger cam...might need to bump up a size in jets, but I can't really get to that point until I get the motor to consistently run right at idle.

Still truckin...
Jim

 

first thing to do is check that the valve stem heights are all the same.
Do that by removing the rocker arms and laying a strigth edge across the top of the valves,
if they are all the same check the pushrod leights and they should all be the same .
when we do a valve job and install hard sets we set the height of the valve so that you have the correct pre load on the lifters
if the valves are not all the same height contact the machine shop it their responably to do the work correct
(IE) the base circle of the camshaft should be the same the lifter height shoud be the same the push rod leight should be the same and the valve stem height should be the same
sometimes you have to use longer or shorter pushrods to compensate for block surfaceing and cylinder head surfacing
if they did all the machine work and sold you the parts they should help or take care problems of mismatched parts
but if you went to one shop for some of the work and another shop for the rest of the work you may not get any help as each shop will blame the outher

 

I have to question your statement about 20# on the valve adjustment. That is not how you adjust valves. Since it has already been running the lifters are going to be full of oil. Pull the spark plugs to make it easier to turn...rotate the engine to TDC on the compression stroke for #1. Get a SBF manual to find the right lash adjustment, but it will be similar to this: The adjustment procedure usually calls for loosening the adjustment nut until the rocker arm has clearance. Tighten the nut until it has zero clearance....usually you can tell by spinning a push rod with your fingers...when you have it tightened to zero clearance the push rod will get hard to turn. Now tighten it 1/4 to 1/2 turn...no more...no less. Rotate the engine 90 degrees (use a degree wheel or make marks on the harmonic balancer). Now do the same for the next cylinder in the firing order. Keep this up for all 8 cylinders. The idea is to push the piston in the lifter so it isn't at the top of the travel. As things wear, the lifter will self adjust and keep the valves at zero lash...running smoothly.

You can also adjust valves with the engine running...same procedure...just messy. With the engine idling with a valve cover removed, for each valve adjuster, loosen it until you hear it rattle...tighten slowly until it stops rattling...then SLOWLY tighten it 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Easy...effective, and messy.

On your carb...you won't need to change jets unless your mixture was already off. This is a common mistake...the carburetor measures airflow and adds fuel proportionally. You could put that carb on a 460 and the fuel/air ratio would be the same.....up to the limit of its airflow. So...no, don't change jets unless you do a spark plug reading and find that yours is too lean or too rich. Just make sure that all of the unused vacuum ports are capped and the PCV valve is hooked up.

Also...if you were off a tooth on the timing gear, your compression would probably be lower than 140. I'd start by adjusting valves...it sounds like some are not closing.

Dan

 

three differant styles of valve ajustment on 289/302 fords
1. 3/8 standard stud that is 3/8 stud and 3/8 thread this one adjusts the same as chevy
2. 3/8 studs with taper down to 5/15 with taper on the stud and special taper nuts for the taper studs this one torques down to 18/24 lbs
3. 5/16 bolts with machined looking fulcums this one also torques down 18/24 lbs
the 2 last ones are the ones that have to have the valve stem height set to get the correct preload on the lifters.
he also has rail style rocker arms and are used with the studs that are 3/8 to 5/16 tapered

 

I'm pretty sure he has the #1 style...self locking type nuts over spherical washers....those need an initial lash adjustment & not a torque value.

Dan

 

Dan,
Your procedure for setting the lash is right on for adjustable lifters...though I've always heard to go 3/4 turn to set them straight. This is exactly what I did after talking to the machine shop. Got it running pretty good that way, but just idling in the driveway. Took it around the block and everything changed. There wasn't a rocker that was in the same spot.

At first I thought that the nuts were supposed to lock and were just worn out. But I picked up new ones and they don't lock either.

These are positive stop studs...3/8 shank presses into the head, and 5/16ths threads come out the top. Everything I've read says they're non-adjustable. You tighten them down to 17-24 ft lbs (depending on what source you read). I've got a Haynes manual I've been referencing for the past 15yrs. My grandfather gave it to me when I got the truck. It says 18-22lbs on the rockers. (And tells you how to figure out whether what you have is adjustable or not. Mine aren't. Even though the machine shop says you can do them like they are.)

So far as the carb goes that's just a guess. On my short little test drive I noticed it'd accelerate from stop just fine, but then act like it was running out of gas before I got to the shift point. Now, that might be a timing issue, but in my mind it might not be getting enough fuel at the higher RPMs (shifted to second and it accelerated fine again, but petered out again...can't say what the cause is until I get this valve issue sorted out).

Thanks for the feedback though. I can only converse with myself so much!


Jred--point of fact they aren't. I laid a straight edge on them and they're not all the same height. I think I'll take a feeler gauge and measure the differences and see what the shop says, but they're not all the same. We've only got one shop in town; they did all the head work so if it's wrong...well I don't want to say anything that might be held against me.

Still, I think I'll pull the timing cover and put that nagging thought to rest. If everything's still right there; then I'll have confidence the machine shop screwed up. Though...that will probably kill the chances of having it running in two week's time...we'll see.

Peace,
Jim

 

If they're the non-adjustable type, then it would be important to have checked the clearance while the lifters were still dry. For each cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke, you rock the rocker back to compress the lifter and verify that there is some clearance between the valve and the rocker. It's hard to do with the lifter full of oil, but it can be checked with a lever tool. That is why installed valve height is important...there can be some variation, but usually if the valve to rocker clearance is out of spec, you change it by changing out the push rods for different lengths. You can buy individual push rods in various lengths if only one is out of spec. The spec is pretty fat, so the lifters can take up quite a bit of free play, but there are limits. If you got 140 compression on all of the cylinders, you might be OK. Maybe you need to chase down a bad vacuum leak.

Dan