No fuel after sitting
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From: Jacksonville
No fuel after sitting
93 F-250 7.3 non-turbo<o
></o>
After sitting over night I connected a fuel gauge to the Schradervalve on top of the fuel filter housing and on first couple of cranks there isno pressure reading. After 3 or 4 cranks, I start to see pressure rise andengine starts as normal with no other issues. <o></o>
After engine is warm it will start on first turn every time.<o></o>
Truck is a recent purchase with two codes and the TPS and crank sensors werereplaced and no new codes. Also all injector caps and fuel lines were replaced.<o></o>
My question is from the fuel filter back, where or what could be causing thefuel to drain from the filter or does it sound more like the mechanical pump isstarting to fail?<o></o>
I have followed the fuel line from the filter all the wayback to the tank select valve and see no signs of a leak.<o></o>
Any thoughts or insight are welcome<o></o>
></o>After sitting over night I connected a fuel gauge to the Schradervalve on top of the fuel filter housing and on first couple of cranks there isno pressure reading. After 3 or 4 cranks, I start to see pressure rise andengine starts as normal with no other issues. <o
></o>After engine is warm it will start on first turn every time.<o
></o>Truck is a recent purchase with two codes and the TPS and crank sensors werereplaced and no new codes. Also all injector caps and fuel lines were replaced.<o
></o>My question is from the fuel filter back, where or what could be causing thefuel to drain from the filter or does it sound more like the mechanical pump isstarting to fail?<o
></o>I have followed the fuel line from the filter all the wayback to the tank select valve and see no signs of a leak.<o
></o>Any thoughts or insight are welcome<o
></o>
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
welcome to FTE.
are you having problems starting, or just playing with the truck learning how things work?
i have never bothered looking at fuel pressure at the filter head unless i suspect the mechanical pump is failing.
are you having problems starting, or just playing with the truck learning how things work?
i have never bothered looking at fuel pressure at the filter head unless i suspect the mechanical pump is failing.
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From: Jacksonville
Yes after truck sits it is hard to start and that is where I got the idea to check if the lift pump was supplying fuel to the IP before looking else where.
I will also check the IDI section as suggested by Ozdatman
Thanks to both
I will also check the IDI section as suggested by Ozdatman
Thanks to both
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
befor starting after sitting overnight, remove the fuel filter and see if it is full or half empty. my guess is it is half empty.
if the line from the front injector to the filter head is still hooked up, try removing the line and plugging both ends with a bolt and hose clamp. if this fixes the problem the culprit is most likely air intrusion through the fuel return line going from the engine back to the tank.
this was a TSB issued by ford back in 1989 or 1990 to solve air intrusion. that line was eliminated on my 88 back in 91 and i have not had any problems with it since.
if the line from the front injector to the filter head is still hooked up, try removing the line and plugging both ends with a bolt and hose clamp. if this fixes the problem the culprit is most likely air intrusion through the fuel return line going from the engine back to the tank.
this was a TSB issued by ford back in 1989 or 1990 to solve air intrusion. that line was eliminated on my 88 back in 91 and i have not had any problems with it since.
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From: Jacksonville
Thanks tjc trandport, by capping off the return fuel line from the injector caps to the fuel filter housing resolved the no fuel after sitting.
With that corrected, I still have a problem with starting after sitting.
On first key on after sitting, the wait to start light comes on for max 3 secs then goes out. I can see the volt meter jump a few times while the light is out, I wait to start until the clicking stops but no start.
On second key on, the the wait to start light is on max one second then goes out and again I can see the volt meter jump while the clicking continues and wait till the clicking stops before trying to start.
This goes for 4-5 crankings before the engine starts with a puff of smoke at the tail pipe, engine levels out and runs just fine. After engine is warmed up, on first key the engine starts.
My question is, should the wait to start light not stay on for 10 secs or thereabouts before going out? I would think 3 secs is not long enough for the glow plugs to warm the cylinder.
With that corrected, I still have a problem with starting after sitting.
On first key on after sitting, the wait to start light comes on for max 3 secs then goes out. I can see the volt meter jump a few times while the light is out, I wait to start until the clicking stops but no start.
On second key on, the the wait to start light is on max one second then goes out and again I can see the volt meter jump while the clicking continues and wait till the clicking stops before trying to start.
This goes for 4-5 crankings before the engine starts with a puff of smoke at the tail pipe, engine levels out and runs just fine. After engine is warmed up, on first key the engine starts.
My question is, should the wait to start light not stay on for 10 secs or thereabouts before going out? I would think 3 secs is not long enough for the glow plugs to warm the cylinder.
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i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
yup, you are on the rite track.
it sounds like you have a few bad glow plugs.
when real cold out my 88 will WTS for up to 15-20 seconds.
between 40 and 75 degrees WTS times are around 10-15 seconds.
i bet if you look closely at them you will see autolite or some other garbage name on the glow plugs.
the only glow plugs to use in our trucks are the motorcraft/beru ZD-9 plugs.
you can get them from rockauto for $9.69 each.
here is the link:
MOTORCRAFT Part # ZD9
it sounds like you have a few bad glow plugs.
when real cold out my 88 will WTS for up to 15-20 seconds.
between 40 and 75 degrees WTS times are around 10-15 seconds.
i bet if you look closely at them you will see autolite or some other garbage name on the glow plugs.
the only glow plugs to use in our trucks are the motorcraft/beru ZD-9 plugs.
you can get them from rockauto for $9.69 each.
here is the link:
MOTORCRAFT Part # ZD9
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From: Jacksonville
Thanks again tcj transport, the glow plugs did the tick and the wts light stays on longer and the clicking only starts after the the wts light goes out.
So after plugging and changing glow plugs the truck ran great the next day but after sitting for three days it will not start at all. I checked and have good fuel pressure at the filter, the wts light stays on as needed and I even plugged in the block heater to make sure but no fire.
Is the IP an electrical/mechanical type pump where voltage makes it turn and the cam tells it which cylinder to fill and how can I check to make sure it has fuel and not an air bubble as I think I just have no fuel in the IP to feed the cylinders.
Thanks!
So after plugging and changing glow plugs the truck ran great the next day but after sitting for three days it will not start at all. I checked and have good fuel pressure at the filter, the wts light stays on as needed and I even plugged in the block heater to make sure but no fire.
Is the IP an electrical/mechanical type pump where voltage makes it turn and the cam tells it which cylinder to fill and how can I check to make sure it has fuel and not an air bubble as I think I just have no fuel in the IP to feed the cylinders.
Thanks!
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
injector pump is pure mechanical, with an electric fuel shut off switch.
pull the fuel filter off and see if it is full, or partially empty.
if it is full, with key on, remove the wire on the back connector on top of the injector pump and see if you hear the fuel shutoff click.
if it does not, there is either no power to the fuel shutoff is sticking/bad.
pull the fuel filter off and see if it is full, or partially empty.
if it is full, with key on, remove the wire on the back connector on top of the injector pump and see if you hear the fuel shutoff click.
if it does not, there is either no power to the fuel shutoff is sticking/bad.
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From: Jacksonville
Fuel checks good, key on no click sound when connector removed.
Tested with meter, key off short to ground, key on same reading and no volts with key on.
I did notice when testing to ground that ohm reading changed while glow plug relay was clicking after wts light goes out, does power come from the same unit?
Tested with meter, key off short to ground, key on same reading and no volts with key on.
I did notice when testing to ground that ohm reading changed while glow plug relay was clicking after wts light goes out, does power come from the same unit?
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
i am not sure where it draws power from.
now just to make sure we have the rite connector, did you try removing both wires from the pump?
i am pretty sure the rear is the fuel shut off, and the front is the timing advance, but i might be wrong.
if no power to the fuel shut off with key on, try running a jumper wire from battery positive to the connector and see if it clicks. if it does, see if it will start.
this will confirm there is nothing wrong with the pump and the problem is electrical.
now just to make sure we have the rite connector, did you try removing both wires from the pump?
i am pretty sure the rear is the fuel shut off, and the front is the timing advance, but i might be wrong.
if no power to the fuel shut off with key on, try running a jumper wire from battery positive to the connector and see if it clicks. if it does, see if it will start.
this will confirm there is nothing wrong with the pump and the problem is electrical.
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From: Jacksonville
It is the front connector that has volts with key on and while I do hear the click when I remove the connector, I hear it more from the glow plug module and not near the IP itself.
I will test after work today running a hot wire to that contact and see if it fires.
Looking at the top of the IP, is this part removable without taking the IP out or is the IP a whole assembly and can not be worked on while on the engine?
Thanks again for your time!
I will test after work today running a hot wire to that contact and see if it fires.
Looking at the top of the IP, is this part removable without taking the IP out or is the IP a whole assembly and can not be worked on while on the engine?
Thanks again for your time!
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
DO NOT!!!! remove the top of the pump.
if the fuel shut off is not put back exactly perfectly, you will get a run away engine as soon as it starts up.
you should hear a definite click from the injector pump as power is applied to it.
if the fuel shut off is not put back exactly perfectly, you will get a run away engine as soon as it starts up.
you should hear a definite click from the injector pump as power is applied to it.