Alright, newbie to this forum here and I know this may have been kicked to death on 95% of the internet forums, but to me this seems like a more specific request than most of the others. We have a '98 F150 4.6 3.55 (112K mi) that we pull a 26' 4700# trailer maybe 6-7 times a year. The truck pulls it fine until we hit some of the hills at which point we're chugging at 35 MPH with the engine screaming. So...

We've decided to upgrade the 150 for a 250. We're looking at used trucks as I just can't seem to pull myself to spend $40K-50K on any vehicle. I figure I'm driving it, not living in the thing. Which begs the question - when did trucks rise so much in price. I paid $17K for mine in 2000. That buys an 8 year old truck with lots a miles behind it now. But, that's another story.

We've found 2 trucks that stand out in our search, so far - an '04 6.0 and an '04 V10. They're both in great shape. The V10 has 70K mi and is almost a base model (window cranks , spray out interior, etc) while the 6.0 has 90K on it and is loaded up with more bells and whistles.

2004 F250 V10

2004 F250 6.0

I've read these forums for a couple of months now and I see the V10 owners are very satisfied with the power of the engine but hate the mileage. Most of the PSD owners are screaming about the failures of their engines but love their mileage and power. I, personally, can't see that every PSD engine sits in the shop more than it's on the road. And I can't see that all V10's get the mileage of a Kenworth.

Soooo... here's the question. Is there anyone out there that gets decent mileage with a V10? My current truck doesn't get the best of mileage (16 city/20-ish hiway) and I don't expect it to get that. And is there any 6.0 owners out there that haven't mortgaged their house to keep the truck on the road? Are the chances that an '04 6.0 has had all it's kinks worked out by 90K miles? I've never had any real problems with my 150 with the exception of a blown-up pinion bearing (hauling 2048# of bricks or a pallet of travertine tile probably didn't help that). It's always run fine - it just doesn't get us up the hills with the trailer in tow very quickly.

We'd like to keep the truck around a 2004 and up and we are looking at either a diesel or a V10 because we'll probably upgrade the trailer in about 5 years, but a lot of these stories that we read scare the heck out of us. Personally, I lean towards the diesel but if the V10's mileage and reliability aren't as bad as people suggest, I could be persuaded. The wife leans towards the V10 because of the "noise" and the smell of the diesel. She says she doesn't care what I decide because I'm the one that knows about these things. Boy, have I got her fooled.

Anyway, opinions? Real life experiences? Has anyone had any experience with the AutoCheck rating? I ask because both of these trucks have decent scores - the 6.0 scores a 93 and the V10 scores a 91.

Thanks for the insight.

On a side note, when trying to edit my Vehicle Profile, I can't get past the "Upload Timeslip" screen. All i get is "Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing." Am I doing something wrong?

 

Personally I would stick with the '05 and newer trucks. Better transmissions, more powerful engines, stronger frames, better brakes and better turning radius. I am a huge fan of the V10 engines. Having had a 6.0 liter Diesel and all it's problems, I prefer the V10, just simpler to take care of great power with less worries. You don't have to limit yourself to F250's, look at F350's also. I would prefer a F350 especially if you are going to upgrade to a bigger camper.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to an F350 either, dualwheels66. What's your mileage with a V10? I think that's the only thing that scares me with the V10's. I know it's a truck and the mileage will be comparable. I just don't want to pick one up and find out that the posters were right and I'm stuck with a gas sucking pig that gets half of what I'm getting now. Daily driving is only going to be about 20 miles. So, that would lean me more toward the V10 also. If I could get 12-13 city driving, it wouldn't be that bad.

 

I personally would go with the v10 . I work on a few of both . I would not buy any of the oil burners newer than a 7.3 . Don't you 6 ltr lovers kick my teeth out now . Just my opinion .

 

Do not expect 12-13 city mpg. Hope for it. I drive 26 miles round trip to work. In winter I avg around 9.5 and in summer about 10.5-11. I have 4.10 gears and slightly larger tire. Crew can shortbed 4x4. V10s love gas, and you have to let it run the RPMs it wants on hills. I enjoy the hell out of my V10. I have the power of diesel, without the maintenance. $30 oil changes, $15 fuel filter, and $100 for plugs and spark plug and boots. Obviously the rear end, transmission, and coolant services are nearly the same across the board. I love the way the 6.0 runs, sounds, and its power but I don't have the means to drop $$$ on expensive diesel repairs. Maybe one day I will, and ill buy a diesel because I love what they can do. My V10 has been the single most reliable truck I have owned.

 

i think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

i cringe anytime someone uses v10 and mileage in the same sentence.

v10s are great at two things.
1: hauling heavy stuff
2: acquainting the owner with the local fuel stations.

we got the v10 expecting it to haul heavy loads with ease while getting single digit fuel mileage, it has not disappointed.

personally, i think you are in the half ton market for what you haul. an 09-10 with the 5.4 will easily handle your load while giving very good unloaded fuel mileage. the 6sp in the 09+ is what the old 5.4 needed from day one.

if you upgrade your trailer in the future, consider an upgrade in the truck at that time.

if it were me, i'd keep what i had, bank the payment and buy what you want in a few years. what's wrong with climbing hills at 35mph? your current truck is getting the job done, and it is only a few times per year. NO WAY am i driving a v10 every day and spending almost 20k to be able to climb hills faster 6 or 7 times a year. JMHO.

edit:
another 100% viable option would be to re-gear your current truck so that it handles the hills better.
a set of 4.10's would really wake up that 4.6L and turn it into a truly capable tow rig. you would lose a little fuel mileage on the hwy, but no were near what you would lose by going to the v10.

as for the diesel. i would only drive one if someone else promised to pay the maintenance costs.

 

The re-gearing is a viable option, Mike, and one that we have thought about before getting on the truck upgrade kick. I may revisit the thought and do a little research to see if it would be worth the gear swap. 4.10 R&P set is available for under $200 here. And you're right - we can do the truck upgrade later down the road.

The only thing with climbing the hills at 35 MPH is that the engine seems to be working at its max to do it. It sometimes seems like the thing is going to blow up before we get to the top. We also want to take a trip up to WA and one off the grades is a 7 mile stretch of 7% grade going up there. I just don't want to be picking up pistons and bearing caps on our vacation.

I'll look into it, though. Nice! Another option to think about...

 

I run an 06 6.0. Zero problems, decent mileage...well hybrid mileage compared to the V10. With that said, I wouldn't touch an 04 6.0 with a forty foot pole.

 

I got 15mpg out of my new used 06 F250 xtracab with 35" tires and a 6" lift. A superchip tuner gave me 16mpg. I put my 8ft camper on and 12mpg is what I get. These are imperial gallons.

 

Hi phinner, welcome to FTE! You're going to find a wealth of information around here, and we hope you stick around.

Just like dualwheels66 I am a former diesel owner, but mine were much newer and under warranty. My '08 6.4L Powerstroke truck had the engine replaced as a brand-new truck still on the dealer's lot before I even test drove it, and my '11 6.7L truck had its turbocharger replaced with ~3,000 miles on the odometer. Both of these are relatively rare failures on such a new truck, but as they get older they become more common.

Meborder and mikeismadness are also correct about fuel economy. I chose my V10-powered truck knowing full well about how bad the fuel economy was going to be. I can't get over 13 MPG on the highway babying it under 70 MPH, but some of this is due to my 4.30 gears. I made this choice as a hedge against the cost of a major repair on a diesel engine. There isn't a whole lot that can be done to a 6.0L Powerstroke for less than $1,000, and there are some problems that can occur such as blown headgaskets, bad injectors, leaking bedplate gaskets, and bad turbos that can easily cost multiple thousand dollars just to keep the truck running. It's not that I'm calling the 6.0L an unreliable engine, just that the things that can break will cost far more than the things that can break on a V10.

So the question is, as Dirty Harry would put it, do you feel lucky? If your 6.0L is one of the better examples of its kind and gives you years of service without anything more than basic maintenance you will make out on the deal due to the better fuel economy. But if your 6.0L engine isn't one of the better examples and something expen$ive breaks, you will obliterate any fuel savings and then some with the cost of the repair. In my experience the better financial bet is the V10 because the costs of ownership are much less variable. You know what your fuel costs are going to cost and there isn't nearly as much of a thread of a looming multi-thousand dollar repair.

I like the 6.0L Powerstroke engine, and for towing heavy there isn't a gas motor that can even come close to the effortless towing experience that this engine will provide.

And lastly...

If this is your motivation for buying a bigger truck then you might as well stop here. You are NOT going to hurt that engine by leaning into the pedal up a hill. I'm serious. Wide open throttle, all day, every day, up a hill, hot weather, doesn't matter! The modular V8s are well-known to be some of the most durable and long-lasting engines ever built, and as long as it's maintained you can let it sing all day without much to worry about.

Keep in mind that the V10 is based off of the same architecture as your 4.6L V8. The 5.4L is nothing but a stroked 4.6L V8, and the V10 is a 5.4L with two more cylinders. Same dimensions, pistons, rods, and valvetrain; and I used my 13-year-old V10 to yank 15,000 lbs across the country last fall without any worries.

You won't hurt it.

 

phinner, my '08 F350 CC, long bed, V10 is my daily driver/work truck. It weighs in at 10.400lbs. I get a consistent 8.5-9 MPG with the winter fuel. That might seem low but it's heavy and depending on where the job is, I might have a 2 mile drive to work or a 100 mile drive to work. Am I upset with the fuel economy, no not really. My '06 PSD got 12MPG with the same tools and same weight but maintenance was a lot more.
Here in PA there is a stretch of the Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike that has a 7% grade for 7 miles and when we go camping my truck pulls that hill at 75mph with no problems, truck and trailer 18,200lbs. I like to keep it around 65MPH but there is a lot of tractor trailer traffic that I don't like to be stuck behind so having the power to pass on hills is nice to have. You are not going to hurt that engine running at 5000RPM.

 

Ok i've dropped this situation many times and I'll do it again. I chose my V10 due to price as I would only be in 6.0 territory with the budget I had. I, myself, me, was just not comfortable with a 6.0 as a first diesel. I use my truck extensively during summer to tow a dump trailer, which it does great. I also have a full time commute of 80 miles round trip. So if I used the the V10 I'd have a $600 monthly personal fuel bill. Ugh. I need a truck to tow that trailer but no way will I commute with it. Solution, cheap used Taurus. Gets me decent mileage, cost $2000, and allows me to not worry about spending $600/month on gas. Sure I'm not "Mr. Cool Guy" driving a nice truck to work everyday for no reason but I'm not even remotely worried with that. Plus it keeps the miles off the truck.

Buy whatever truck YOU want, not what our opinions want. Just know the pros and cons with each and make an educated decision.

My opinion, with the infrequent towing get a gas truck and a car for mileage.

 

That's some $$$ for fuel, MD. I think you went the right way. And who said Tauruses aren't cool???

Well, I've been looking into meborder's suggestion about swapping out the gears. I've seen lots of 4.6 owners that have made the swap with 4.10's, 4.30's, and 4.56's and have been thrilled with the decision. One poster on F150Online swapped from 3.55 to 4.10 and says "it's like a brand new truck!" As I'm not worried about top end speed at my age, we're looking back at this as a very reasonable option. From what I read, mileage doesn't suffer much. In fact most say city MPG goes up, but freeway MPG goes down. I can live with that.

I'm kind of thinking forgoing the 4.10's and just jumping to the 4.30's - just write one check. The truck does pull fine on the flat roads, it's mainly going up the hills that we're looking for the gain. I'll be calling a shop a mechanic friend suggested tomorrow. And if we're not happy with that, we'll look at the upgrade to the truck. We'll keep everyone up to date.

 

have you ever though of gettin a F250 or f350 with a 5.4 V8 in it my trucks a 2002 f250 supercab longbox 4x4 with the 5.4 6speed stick with 373 gears in it and it pulls a 10000lb camper trailer not to bad and i get about 800km to a tank of gas (143L tank)

 

Yes, Caveman, we had thought about the 5.4 F250. I'm sure it will provide ample power to pull our current trailer, but our thought was that we wanted a truck that would also pull an upgraded trailer 4 or 5 years down the road. And if we end up with a larger 5th wheel, we would probably be in the same boat that we are now. I'm the type that keeps a truck til the wheels fall off unless, of course, something else is needed. So, the diesel or V10 would fit that bill perfect - if I was able to make up my mind.

We'll be calling the shop about the gear swap this morning. Hopefully, if it's cost effective that will satisfy us for a couple more years.