When all is said and done using this stuff... What do I have to do before I apply a primer or in my case por15? Do I just wash it off with plain water? Soapy water? Baking soda and water? Moisture isnt a problem since I can go over the area with a heat gun.
I have it sitting on the panel now and have been applying new coats every couple hours. Google search really didn't give me a definite answer.

 

If you're using POR-15 follow their suggestions and recommendations, use nothing but their entire system.

Here's a link I found very useful when treating my new-to-me '03 E250 floor: POR-15 APPLICATION

HTH

 

They are not really clear on the smaller details of their application. I'm basically wanting to know what should I do between the stage of (Metal prep) phos acid and the actual coating of por15. Im using home depot prep and etch. It's basically the same as pors metal prep. Only $40 cheaper. Ive been etching the hell out of this panel. Theres zero rust. Been sand blasting all the pits. Im just waiting till I get my shop warm enough to do the actual coat of por.
Is it okay to let the phosphoric acid dry to that white power while waiting? Then clean it off and reapply it wet for about a hour before the por15?
Basically I need to know how do and if I have to neutilize this stuff before the por15. Just clean it off with water and dry it? Do I need soapy water, water with a bit of baking soda?

 

I really need it to work the first time and stay good lol. Because of where the por15 will be going it we be impossible to get to
Heres a little insight on what im doing.
-89-97 f series bed (besides 97 f150).
-These beds are known the rot out above the wheel wells.
-Got a southern rust "free bed". Note: none of these beds are rust free. Unless it was kept in a climate controls area with no dust or moisture.
-These beds are knwon to rot between the inner and outer wheel well panels.

Heres what im doing.

- Drilled all the spot welds and removed the inner fender from the lip and inner bed skin.
- Bed was rust free from tenn.
- But there was rust starting on the outer panel from the inside. Just small pitting and some scaling. Nothing came through to the outside. Basically all these beds no matter how clean they are have rust. Aslong as there dust, salt in the air and it gets up behind that fender. Also the middle stake post allows water, dirt and what ever to go straight down there. Moisture also gets up there from the air and has no place to go.
- So you basically take that inner fender out. Clean up all the rust and hope there are no pineholes while sand blasting. And apply por15/or epoxy primer... Drill wholes in the inner fender and reattach it using 3m adhesive. Note 3m needs bare metal to bond. So leaving the lip and the areas on the inner skin bare .
- The panel adhesive also will seal off oxygen and moisture to the bare metal. and it will give the area between where it meets at the lip and nice waterproof seem. The holes allow dirt and what ever to come out. Allowing you to clean up there with a hose and what not. Here are some pictures."

Heres a picture of a inner fender removed and the drain wholes drilled.



Heres a picture of the inner fender with holes back inplace to show how you can clean the area.



Heres a picture of the inside outer panel. All rust is sandblasted and the panel is being etched for por15. Still looking on how to property clean it for the por.



I wont be re-installing the inner fender till the bed has some body work and paint done. Leaving it out for now makes it easier to work on. But I will be taking pictures of the whole process and hope to have a write up sometime in the future. This is basically saving one of these beds from rotting out. Also leaving a inner fender out will cause the bed to do alot of twisting while driving lol. It will also allow rocks and stuff to be thrown up and possible put a dent in the beside. It should be re-installed. But with drain wholes and glued in. Not welded.

 

What I did during my use was pick a warm day, first applying the etch material as instructed, paying somewhat close attention to the timing suggested.

After allowing the etch material to work and rinsing it away as suggested I let the van sit until it was completely dry, probably almost 24 hours. (I was doing everything outside, during the summer.) Applied the first coat with a small roller waited about 3 hours then applied the second coat.

I don't know I'd etch and rinse any parts and wait a significant time later to apply the actual POR-15. Its possible air-borne crap would land on your prepped pieces and reduce the coating's ability to properly bond to the bare metal. I paid close attention to this from the link I provded:

Sorry if I'm not being all that helpful. I based my process on more experience hands who use POR-15 somewhat regularly as well as their suggested methods.

On another note I know budget is important but going through all this effort and using another brand etch material seems a bit self defeating. A one time expense of $40 is a bit small compared to the time, effort and expense you're already incurring. Just my thoughts----------I'm sure this will work just fine for you.

Looking forward to your updates too!

 

Pors metal prep is the same thing as prep & etch you can get at local hardware stores. Hell naval jelly is the same thing/ But less concentrated.
What I might do for the time being is just clean the area and primer/basecoat it intill it gets warmer out and after the body work is done. Then resand and etch it and apply por.

 

Please do not use POR 15. Please. But now for the acid. Without going into a huge write up here . . do it this way. Wipe on the acid with a paper towel or best, a scuff pad. Work it into the area, but keep it wet. Do not allow the acid to dry. If iot is drying before you get it all etched and cleaned well, then re wet it. When you are finished, wipe it off with a dry paper towel. Do not use water, do not use water! I have been using phosphoric acid for a long time on restorations. In discussion with a DuPont engineer, I came away with the procedure that I use. Do not use water.

 

Pete if you have a better way to use any pre-finish material please share it here----I'm very interested if there's something better to be done.

And why the advice against POR-15?

Interesting thread so far!

 

I thought I did post the way to handle the acid etch . . and why.
As for the POR . it fails. Its a hard surface, but adhesion can fail. I like using a true primer. It's a moisture cured primer, but it can be applied over good metal or rusty metal ( unlike POR ). If you want to use POR as a topcoat, go for it. But don't use it as the base, just my opinion. I've been using Master Series for 17 year or so?? It is a material to use as a primer, then top coat as you want. You could use it to remove the pits,sand, then epoxy over that. I use in on pitted panels. I have used on tops of cars that had a vinyl top. Extremely pitted. Those cars I did this on still look the same today, many years later.

 

All my pits are rust free. I media blasted the hell out of them. Luckily no pin holes. The acid did dry once when I left it over night. But I just reapplied and waited another hour and wiped it off. I did wash it down with a pump sprayer and water. Then wiped it down with acetone and went to it with a heat gun for a couple of mins. You can see the moisture it sucked out of the metal. But at the moment I used a basic primer over the area in till the body work of the rest of the bed is finished.

I plan on sanding the primer off to bare metal again and reapply the acid then por15 once it gets warmer.

But why do you suggest not rinsing the acid off before primer/paint? Like I said above. Once this area is painted and the inner fender is re-installed with adhesive there is no way to get back there.

 

I will never again allow any POR on anything I own, not as a base. The material I suggest is far superior. Its as simple as that. I do this work as a living and it is my material of choice. I cannot say more. As for water, it's because of flash rust. No reason to put water on the metal.

 

Perhaps the materials you use and highly recommend Pete aren't as easily applied by us backyard/drive way body men?

Surface prep along with assuring the best avenue for adhesion is paramount in any material applied to an auto/truck body---that's been constant since my body shop ownership days back in the 80's.

For my money and a relative ease of application POR has a lot of fans and followers.

Just my $0.02 worth ya know!

 

Not true, Master Series is just as easy. Just a better adhesion material IMO.

 

Im not expert but I've been doing a lot of research on etching and I dont think flash rust occurs to etched metal? I mean when I washed the acid off I went right back on it with a heat gun. Plus wouldn't flash rust help por15 ad-hear better?

 

Trust me it happens. True, the phosphoric acid leaves a coating, but the water to wash off the acid will leave a rust residue. I'm not going into to it all with you. But I'm not making stuff up here. Take my advice or not. I've been around these procedures for a long time. Out.