Engine Swap
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New User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Jacksonville NC
Engine Swap
I am putting a 351W in my 69 F100 and having trouble finding the right engine pirches. It originaly had the 240 six in it and right now has a 302 that i built in high school in it. I used the Pirches that were in it and moved them back to fit. This makes the engine sit 2 inches higher than it should and has had no substantual efect on the drive line angles and so on but the pirch on the driver side only bolts on with 2 bolts to the frame due to being moved back and the steering box being righ there, and the one on the passenger side only has 3 bolts and they tend to twist slightly during opperation and the bolts loosen.... Im building a 408 stoker with some substantual other upgrades. I predict it will be in the 450 HP range with atleast that much tourque or more. I am pretty shure that will be a major issue with those pirches and the drive line angles considering the amount of power. I have a few questions any help would be much appreciated.
1. Does anyone know where to get the right Pirches or know how to make a pair?
2. Whare can i get an original parts list for that year truck?
Any other suggestions would be helpfull.
1. Does anyone know where to get the right Pirches or know how to make a pair?
2. Whare can i get an original parts list for that year truck?
Any other suggestions would be helpfull.
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 249
From: North Pole, Alaska
As you said perches, I'm assuming 2wd. What you have now are the original Six (240/300)/FE (352, 360, 390) perches. Since you are installing a Windsor smallblock, what you need are 302 perches, or 351M/400 perches from a 77-79 as they are the same according to ND. You can get them from a junkyard or Ebay. Just look at the engine code on the safety/warranty/data sticker under the left door striker as the left door data plate is probably gone along with the door. What you are looking for is a G (302) engine code, or for a 77-79 H (351M/400) engine code. Just remember that the H code was also used for the 390 so check to make sure the truck you are looking at is a 77-79 to get the right perches for a 351M/400. You can get the Ford master part catalog on cd from Hipoparts.com. Also, check this:
http://fordification.com/tech/engine-perches.htm
http://fordification.com/tech/engine-perches.htm
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 24,552
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From: Creedmoor, North Carolina
Don't want to overstep my bounds, but I believe the 351W & 302 share the same block basically with the difference being up on top of the engine, in the intake area. The mounting should be the same.
Should this be incorrect I'm sure it will be shot down & rolled over.
John
Should this be incorrect I'm sure it will be shot down & rolled over.
John
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New User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Jacksonville NC
From what I can see the pirches are the only change needed to keep the proper drive line agles when going from the Inline six to a small block V8. I found that the bell housings for the small block V8's and inline 6's are the same so i was able to go from the 240 to the 302 with no issues in regards to bolting up to the transmition.
Adding to what jowilker said the 289, 302 and 351W all have the same pattern for the engine mounts and bell housings that I know of.
Adding to what jowilker said the 289, 302 and 351W all have the same pattern for the engine mounts and bell housings that I know of.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: NorCal
IIRC, you'll need an V8 gas pedal arm - the one that mounts to the firewall. Look and measure and you'll see what I mean.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: hinckley ohio
There the same crossmembers I took out a 360 3 spd and installed a 351w with a c6 I had 77 perches and gas pedal rod is a lot simpler.I did have to move my crossmember back and drill new holes.I used hedman headers for a 302 they will need some denting to clear things.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: NorCal
Confirmed. The 351W has the same engine architecture as a 302 but with a +/-1.3 inch taller deck height. It is also splayed out a corresponding amount due to the 90° reciprocating assembly. And if yer gonna ask about headers, I figure pick up 302 headers will work but need to be pie cut and re-welded to make up for the splay. It'll also be higher in the engine compartment (relative to the 302) so if you can, extend each header tube so the collector ends up in the same location as a 302. It's alot of of work so show your ambition and fab skills... a write up for the tech info hyperlink sticky would be nice....
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
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From: Simi Valley, CA
As you said perches, I'm assuming 2wd. What you have now are the original Six (240/300)/FE (352, 360, 390) perches.
Since you are installing a Windsor smallblock, what you need are 302 perches, or 351M/400 perches from a 77-79 F100/350 2WD as they are the same according to ND.
Just look at the VIN engine code on the 1970/79 Safety Standard Certification Label glued to the B pillar or Warranty Plate located on the left door face below the latch.
Since you are installing a Windsor smallblock, what you need are 302 perches, or 351M/400 perches from a 77-79 F100/350 2WD as they are the same according to ND.
Just look at the VIN engine code on the 1970/79 Safety Standard Certification Label glued to the B pillar or Warranty Plate located on the left door face below the latch.
302 has 6 valve cover bolts per side (as do 351W's) / 351M/400's have 8 valve cover bolts per side.
351W's were not installed in F150/350's until 1981. The perches (aka towers/stands/supports) will not work on 1979 or prior years. Neither will 302/351W/351M/400 Passenger Car/Econoline perches of any year.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2011
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This link provides some detail and photos of the various perch options:
Comparison Photos of Engine Perches - FORDification.com
Comparison Photos of Engine Perches - FORDification.com
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Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Jacksonville NC
Well its been a while since I was on here and have finished with my engine and am trying to figure out my transmission. I have been looking into a Zf s5-42 or getting an overdrive for the T18. I have been reading a lot of the threads on this site but am not getting all the info I need. Fist is how much torque and horse power can the Zf withstand since my 408 is making 475 foot pounds at 2800 to 400 foot pounds at 4500 rpm and 417 hp at around 5600 witch is pretty impressive for a small block. I do use the truck to tow once and a while and still want to gain some highway drivability. My T18 is holding up to the power for now but haven't found any solid info on its capabilities as well. Second for the T18 is there replacement ratios out there that can improve the higher gears in it instead of an overdrive?
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New User
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From: Jacksonville NC
Ok so Im most likely going to be going the route of the Zf since its going to be cheaper than the over drive systems. I have been spending a LOT of time surfing the web trying to find one with the SB casting but they seem to be hard to find. I know of a few sites that sell them but are still pretty pricy. I have also been hitting the junkyards hard and have come up empty handed. Does anyone have any Ideas as to where I could find one?
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New User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Jacksonville NC
Ok I have a few more questions.
First, does any one know how long the ZF 5-42 2 wheel drive transmission is?
Second, has anyone ever swapped out the front suspension with a Crown Vic? If so do you have any pointers as I have to add after market power steering, power breaks, and a few other tweaks.
First, does any one know how long the ZF 5-42 2 wheel drive transmission is?
Second, has anyone ever swapped out the front suspension with a Crown Vic? If so do you have any pointers as I have to add after market power steering, power breaks, and a few other tweaks.