Industrial strength contactor.
Finally doing it.... GPR Upgrade
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: North of Greenville
Finally doing it.... GPR Upgrade
Okay, guys, I know that I over-engineer most things I work on, and there is some degree of what people will call "wasted money" in those efforts, but while I am able to purchase the extra peace of mind, that's just my choice. 
I should never have to worry about my GPR again.
Instead of stopping at the Stancor relay upgrade, I went whole hog and bought a Tyco Electronics hermetically sealed contactor rated at 500 amps with a 100,000 cycle life rating (at 4 starts per day, 365 days per year, that translates into over 68 years of useful life). The ambient temperature range for the unit is also from -40°F to 185°F which should be adequate for where it sits on the motor. The link to the data sheet is here >>> http://relays.te.com/datasheets/LEV2...-1773439-1.pdf
I got a good deal on the unit from Onlinecomponents.com >>>http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-c...tml?p=11635204, which was about $25-$45 cheaper than other places which had it. Total cost (including S&H) was $87.
I should never have to worry about my GPR again.Instead of stopping at the Stancor relay upgrade, I went whole hog and bought a Tyco Electronics hermetically sealed contactor rated at 500 amps with a 100,000 cycle life rating (at 4 starts per day, 365 days per year, that translates into over 68 years of useful life). The ambient temperature range for the unit is also from -40°F to 185°F which should be adequate for where it sits on the motor. The link to the data sheet is here >>> http://relays.te.com/datasheets/LEV2...-1773439-1.pdf
I got a good deal on the unit from Onlinecomponents.com >>>http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-c...tml?p=11635204, which was about $25-$45 cheaper than other places which had it. Total cost (including S&H) was $87.
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: North of Greenville
Pics will be posted, for sure. I'm getting so behind on installing new parts that I'm going to have to plan out a couple of mod weekends at the house before too long, but the GPR is going in as soon as it arrives. Been having some kinda sluggish cold weather starts, but I haven't seen any white smoke.
Regardless, at 230K miles, I expect the GP's and/or GPR are getting tired at this point and could stand a little proactive replacement. I still have several sets of GP's from back when we were getting them for anywhere from $0.01 to $1 each when Autozone was discontinuing them. I'm hoping to not have to install them in the truck because I want to sell it and replace it with a lower mileage 4WD Platinum in late spring/early summer.
Regardless, at 230K miles, I expect the GP's and/or GPR are getting tired at this point and could stand a little proactive replacement. I still have several sets of GP's from back when we were getting them for anywhere from $0.01 to $1 each when Autozone was discontinuing them. I'm hoping to not have to install them in the truck because I want to sell it and replace it with a lower mileage 4WD Platinum in late spring/early summer.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Plant City
I too looked at those after I did the stancor. I also did the GPR led install while I was there. Simple yet effective information on when the relay is actually on.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...wmriceman.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...wmriceman.html
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: La La Land
The Tyco relay has a coil resistance of 11 ohms. That's 1.1 amp at 12 volts.
How does that coil current compare to both the Stancor and the OEM GPR?
Stancor's coil resistence is 21 ohms, so that's roughly 600 milliamps of coil current.
GPR-109 supposedly draws a full FOUR amps.
Don't know the rating for the OEM relay.
I would be concerned that I was not overloading the PCMs ability to dependably "sink" that much current.
Anyone know the specs for that PCM circuit's output (sink) driver?
New can-o-worms......
Pop
How does that coil current compare to both the Stancor and the OEM GPR?
Stancor's coil resistence is 21 ohms, so that's roughly 600 milliamps of coil current.
GPR-109 supposedly draws a full FOUR amps.
Don't know the rating for the OEM relay.
I would be concerned that I was not overloading the PCMs ability to dependably "sink" that much current.
Anyone know the specs for that PCM circuit's output (sink) driver?
New can-o-worms......
Pop
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: North of Greenville
Stancor's coil resistence is 21 ohms, so that's roughly 600 milliamps of coil current.
GPR-109 supposedly draws a full FOUR amps.
Don't know the rating for the OEM relay.
I would be concerned that I was not overloading the PCMs ability to dependably "sink" that much current.
Anyone know the specs for that PCM circuit's output (sink) driver?
GPR-109 supposedly draws a full FOUR amps.
Don't know the rating for the OEM relay.
I would be concerned that I was not overloading the PCMs ability to dependably "sink" that much current.
Anyone know the specs for that PCM circuit's output (sink) driver?
NO DOUBT!! But I am grateful for your watchful eye all the same, Marv. I want to get some answers on these issues as well before I put something in that I thought to be a stellar upgrade if it is only going to end up frying my PCM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
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From: La La Land
IIRC, the OEM is about 100 amps and the Stancor is about 200 amps.
That's the rating for the contactor, not the coil.
I can't find the OEM specs either.
SOMEBODY musta' measured this at one time or another. Anybody??
Would adding an external resistor into the wiring resolve this?
No, that would reduce the current draw, but also lower the voltage available for pulling in the contacts. It would be like running a twelve-volt relay on eight volts (just an example).
NO DOUBT!! But I am grateful for your watchful eye all the same, Marv. I want to get some answers on these issues as well before I put something in that I thought to be a stellar upgrade if it is only going to end up frying my PCM.
That would be my concern.
That's the rating for the contactor, not the coil.
I can't find the OEM specs either.
SOMEBODY musta' measured this at one time or another. Anybody??
Would adding an external resistor into the wiring resolve this?
No, that would reduce the current draw, but also lower the voltage available for pulling in the contacts. It would be like running a twelve-volt relay on eight volts (just an example).
NO DOUBT!! But I am grateful for your watchful eye all the same, Marv. I want to get some answers on these issues as well before I put something in that I thought to be a stellar upgrade if it is only going to end up frying my PCM.
That would be my concern.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: North of Greenville
If you could guide me on this, I'm happy to make a project of it and post plenty of pics and a PDF document for all to enjoy. Electronics is definitely a weak area of mine, but I'm all up for learning something new, and I have some time this coming weekend to make it happen.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
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From: La La Land
Take a look at this page:
Transistor Circuits
Scroll down to the section entitled, "Using a transistor as a switch", including the part about "Protection diode".
Wire it as shown in the section farther below under "Choosing a suitable PNP transistor". I'd use something like a 2N3792.
You need to be mindful of isolation from ground, too. Remember, the transistor case has a connection.
Instead of solid-state, you could also use another, smaller, relay to drive the coil of the large one.
Sorta' like "Darlington'd Relays"
Pop
Transistor Circuits
Scroll down to the section entitled, "Using a transistor as a switch", including the part about "Protection diode".
Wire it as shown in the section farther below under "Choosing a suitable PNP transistor". I'd use something like a 2N3792.
You need to be mindful of isolation from ground, too. Remember, the transistor case has a connection.
Instead of solid-state, you could also use another, smaller, relay to drive the coil of the large one.
Sorta' like "Darlington'd Relays"
Pop
Thread Starter
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,288
Likes: 269
From: North of Greenville
OK. So this can be done, but am I now simply adding more parts which can go bad onto a highly reliable (yet overpowered) relay, and still end up risking burning up the PCM when one of the lesser components fails?
My goal is to "upgrade" so I can simply walk away from it for quite some time. It's counterproductive to add weaker parts into the system and end up with less reliability than I want to acheive.
My goal is to "upgrade" so I can simply walk away from it for quite some time. It's counterproductive to add weaker parts into the system and end up with less reliability than I want to acheive.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
Likes: 207
From: La La Land
I know.
I'm still looking for the truly "free lunch", too.
I think I will end up using a simple push-button switch in the cab, and control the GRP manually.
It's not rocket science for those who know how the glow plugs operate.
Pop
I'm still looking for the truly "free lunch", too.
I think I will end up using a simple push-button switch in the cab, and control the GRP manually.
It's not rocket science for those who know how the glow plugs operate.
Pop
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,549
Likes: 14
From: Payson, AZ
Or do the AIH delete and use the AIH relay as a slave.