Quick throttle response?
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 1
From: Missouri
Post a picture of your engine bay and we can give you more info. A quick glance and we can tell if you have a 302/351 and TFI/DS2.
I have heard of plenty of people that think they have a 351.. but have a 302.. think they have a 302.. but have a 351. Same with Dodges.. 318/360. Confirm your engine before buying parts.
I have heard of plenty of people that think they have a 351.. but have a 302.. think they have a 302.. but have a 351. Same with Dodges.. 318/360. Confirm your engine before buying parts.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 1
From: Wagener, SC
Post a picture of your engine bay and we can give you more info. A quick glance and we can tell if you have a 302/351 and TFI/DS2.
I have heard of plenty of people that think they have a 351.. but have a 302.. think they have a 302.. but have a 351. Same with Dodges.. 318/360. Confirm your engine before buying parts.
I have heard of plenty of people that think they have a 351.. but have a 302.. think they have a 302.. but have a 351. Same with Dodges.. 318/360. Confirm your engine before buying parts.
A couple of good clear pics will help us tremendously in identifying what you have, and that way we can add arrows to your pics to point out what we're talking about.
Pictures are worth 10,000 words!
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,951
Likes: 2,718
From: Virginia
Here's how to tell if it's a 351w or 302.
Building a 351w is mostly the same as any other engine. In fact if you tear it down, it's hard to tell if you are working on a chevy or a ford, they look that much alike.
The big thing with the Fords are the heads. They do not flow well, and do not have an adjustable valve train. They make excellent grocery getters and low rpm truck engines, but when you start asking for more, they do not flow well, and the valves are not adjustable for some camshafts which need it.
As far as the ignition system, if you have a vacuum advance on the distributor with a vacuum line going to it, you should be ok. If the dist doesn't have a vacuum advance can on it, then you do have a problem there.
Building a 351w is mostly the same as any other engine. In fact if you tear it down, it's hard to tell if you are working on a chevy or a ford, they look that much alike.
The big thing with the Fords are the heads. They do not flow well, and do not have an adjustable valve train. They make excellent grocery getters and low rpm truck engines, but when you start asking for more, they do not flow well, and the valves are not adjustable for some camshafts which need it.
As far as the ignition system, if you have a vacuum advance on the distributor with a vacuum line going to it, you should be ok. If the dist doesn't have a vacuum advance can on it, then you do have a problem there.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Fouke, Arkansas
Thank you gentlemen I will do my best to post some pictures of the engine by Saturday, work will take all my time till then. I do know for sure I don't have a vacuum advance distributor. I will also check the spacing between the water pump boss and the head surface and report back. I really appreciate your input and patience with this old rookie.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,951
Likes: 2,718
From: Virginia
That's not good. The distributor doesn't have any advance weights or anything in it except a wheel and pickup to trigger the module. It was ok when it was original, since the computer controlled the timing. Now all the stuff has been stripped off the engine, the computer has no way of knowing what to do.
Your main priority should be a distributor swap and ignition work. That should wake it up for you.
Your main priority should be a distributor swap and ignition work. That should wake it up for you.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
That's not good. The distributor doesn't have any advance weights or anything in it except a wheel and pickup to trigger the module. It was ok when it was original, since the computer controlled the timing. Now all the stuff has been stripped off the engine, the computer has no way of knowing what to do.
Your main priority should be a distributor swap and ignition work. That should wake it up for you.
Your main priority should be a distributor swap and ignition work. That should wake it up for you.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Fouke, Arkansas
Thank you gentlemen, I am strongly considering totally swapping engines. If I totally swap engines I can get a block and start from scratch taking my time and work on it as time allows. I can also pick up the ignition items recommended. At first I didn't like the idea of swapping engines but now with all the changes I will need to make the idea is sounding better all the time LOL. It has been recommended I go with a 94 or newer 5.8L and that sounds good to me. I have a manual 4 speed transmission in my 85 4X4 and am wanting to make sure this 5.8L will fit. Any input geltlemen? Again I thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.
Last edited by Hogtrapper; Dec 18, 2012 at 10:43 PM. Reason: correct year model
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Server Problems
Well, that's interesting. Among the double-posts I've had and have been seeing due to server problems at FTE there are at least some dropped posts. Last night I typed what I'm sure was a really good response on this thread and it isn't there today. Seems to me the IT team supporting FTE isn't of the caliber I used to manage.
In any event, I'm not seeing the reason for going with a whole new engine since you don't know that your existing engine is bad. Looks to me like you are locked into 10˚ BTDC timing due to having a computer-controlled ignition but either no computer or a very mad computer. So, you won't have any reasonable performance from that setup. And, you are going to have to replace the ignition system for a new engine.
So, why not replace it now and find out if your engine has the needed power?
In any event, I'm not seeing the reason for going with a whole new engine since you don't know that your existing engine is bad. Looks to me like you are locked into 10˚ BTDC timing due to having a computer-controlled ignition but either no computer or a very mad computer. So, you won't have any reasonable performance from that setup. And, you are going to have to replace the ignition system for a new engine.
So, why not replace it now and find out if your engine has the needed power?
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Well, that's interesting. Among the double-posts I've had and have been seeing due to server problems at FTE there are at least some dropped posts. Last night I typed what I'm sure was a really good response on this thread and it isn't there today. Seems to me the IT team supporting FTE isn't of the caliber I used to manage.
Remember the new database server? Apparently it's installed and up and running but hasn't been implemented yet, they hit some snags someplace. Not sure what the new timeline is (and it's the holiday season, things generally move more slowly) but it's being worked on....
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
IB is aware of this, there's been a fair amount of grumbling in the mods forum about all the problems.
Remember the new database server? Apparently it's installed and up and running but hasn't been implemented yet, they hit some snags someplace. Not sure what the new timeline is (and it's the holiday season, things generally move more slowly) but it's being worked on....
Remember the new database server? Apparently it's installed and up and running but hasn't been implemented yet, they hit some snags someplace. Not sure what the new timeline is (and it's the holiday season, things generally move more slowly) but it's being worked on....
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Fouke, Arkansas
Good point Gary and I do want to thank you for pointing this out to me, it's a good idea and since I need the new ignition either way I think I will do what you are recommending. Either way I go I know I will have to rebuild an engine whether i buy one at say a junk yard or rebuild the one I am running now. The one I am running now uses some oil, leaks a lot of oil, is very cluttered, plus I want/need more torque and horsepower. Really the only advantage to getting one at a junk yard to rebuild would be less down time for my truck as I could swap the engines in a day or two and have it back on the road. If I can get a block to rebuild for say $150.00 then to me it would be worth it. If I cant find a block for that price then I will just have to have the truck down for several weeks while any necessary machine work is done. The few machine shops we have around here don't get in any hurry. They do work three different ways, fast, good, and cheap, you get to pick any two ways LOL. Again I thank you for your input and suggestions and ask you to please continue sharing your knowledge with me and others.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Actually, if you look at the salvage you might get a decent engine for $150 to $200 that includes a DS-II distributor. For another $5 to $15 you might get the DS-II module, but you want one with a blue grommet where the wires come out. And, get the wiring harness that goes from the module to the distributor. In other words, you might be able to get the "new" ignition and an engine to rebuild in one go.
But, I wouldn't go for just a block. Get a whole engine as you need the crank, heads, etc.
But, I wouldn't go for just a block. Get a whole engine as you need the crank, heads, etc.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Fouke, Arkansas
Thanks again Gary I really appreciate your advice, I knew there was a reason I joined this site. If I am understanding correctly I need to get the complete engine plus the DS II distributor and the DS II module with the blue grommet where the wires come out and the wiring harness that goes from the module to the distrubutor, correct? I am begining to understand and form a plan. Looks to me like with the advice and knowledge of you gentlemen and your willingness to help me we are about to get this thing going, many thanks.