Brake Problems
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New User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Ohio
Brake Problems
I have a 1953 F100. I have front disc brakes and rear drum brakes. I have installed a 1977 mustang booster and master cylinder. I plummed the front brakes from the large chamber at the rear of the master cylinder that has1/4" line and the rear brakes from the small chamber at the front of the master cylinder that has 3/16" line. I need to know if this is correct since I am having the front disc brakes lock up and only release when I open the bleeder valve.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Connecticut
Brake Problems
It sounds like you don't have aporportioning valve in your brake system. The lines from the master go into it and then out to the 4 wheels. This regulates the amount of pressure to the fronts and rear. You probably are getting too much pressure to the front calipers, they use much less than the backs to work. They even make adjustable ones so you can regulate the pressure.
Barry
Barry
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From: Ohio
Brake Problems
Yes, I now realize I need a proportioning valve and inline check valves. But I still need to know if I have the right lines going to the right chambers in the master cylinder before I plum in the new valves.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Waynesville, OH
Brake Problems
Just to make sure we're clear on one point, disk brakes are generally designed to operate at between 500 and 1200 psi, maximum. Drum brakes are generally designed to operate between 250 and 600 psi, maximum. The are, of course, going to be exceptions to these ranges. The numbers I saw for a typical 1970's sedan with a disc/drum setup is 1000 psi front, 300 psi rear. 
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Iowa
Brake Problems
Twobike
I would definitely get a proportioning valve on it ASAP. I assume you mean residual valves when you said check valves. I am not so sure you will need anything more than a proportioning valve. Also ensure the rod that enters your master cylinder is properly adjusted. If it's adjusted too long you can get similar symptoms.
I would definitely get a proportioning valve on it ASAP. I assume you mean residual valves when you said check valves. I am not so sure you will need anything more than a proportioning valve. Also ensure the rod that enters your master cylinder is properly adjusted. If it's adjusted too long you can get similar symptoms.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 910
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From: Maryland
Brake Problems
Twobike, Is it both front brakes locking up or just one? If you cracked the line at the master cylinder will the front brakes unlock? I have found this problem on lots of different cars and trucks if it is not the master cylinder witch could be. It is some thing cloging a tube or a hose. I find a lots of hoses. The reason this happings is that your foot can push the fluid past the blockage but cain't return. The brake lines are hooked ok. And a proporyioning should be used but the the brakes should not be locking up.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Tucson USA
Brake Problems
Two Bike:
I recently installed a similar system on my 56. The main difference is I used a 70 Mustang master cylinder because it is a 1" bore . Not sure what the 77 bore is. I plumbed the front disc brakes with 3/16" lines as per recommendations of ECI Brakes and CH Topping. They indicated that 1/4 was ok on the rear but not on the front. So I believe the plumbing line size is incorrect. I believe disc brakes need 3/16 line and the drums can be plumbed either way. You might want to call one of the places and check that out. I found them to be very helpfull. I
As already indicated in other responses, you will need a proportioning valve or combination valve, before you hit the streets. As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder. You would only need one for the disk brakes if the master cylinder sits below the disc brake wheel cylinders.
Good luck,
Rick
I recently installed a similar system on my 56. The main difference is I used a 70 Mustang master cylinder because it is a 1" bore . Not sure what the 77 bore is. I plumbed the front disc brakes with 3/16" lines as per recommendations of ECI Brakes and CH Topping. They indicated that 1/4 was ok on the rear but not on the front. So I believe the plumbing line size is incorrect. I believe disc brakes need 3/16 line and the drums can be plumbed either way. You might want to call one of the places and check that out. I found them to be very helpfull. I
As already indicated in other responses, you will need a proportioning valve or combination valve, before you hit the streets. As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder. You would only need one for the disk brakes if the master cylinder sits below the disc brake wheel cylinders.
Good luck,
Rick
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New User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Ohio
Brake Problems
Got it all back together with proportioning valve and residual check valves. 10 lb. rear, 2 lb. front. Still have 1/4" line in front, but may have to change it. Drove it about five miles and it worked fine. Didn't lock up. A longer test will tell for sure. Thanks again for all the help.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Iowa
Brake Problems
"As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder."
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 954
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From: 15 miles west of Venus
Brake Problems
Originally posted by fatfenders
"As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder."
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
"As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder."
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
Normally disk run with about #2-3 and drums have #8. Wilwood sells a cool little inline residual valve and adjustable porportioning valve.
I am running the stock '55 m/c, a Midland hydroboost, and the Wilwood residual and porportioning valves.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Tucson USA
Brake Problems
Originally posted by fatfenders
"As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder."
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
"As far as check/residual values you definately need one on the drum line but usually this is built into the drum brake portion of the master cylinder."
Rick
I didn't think he would likely need a residual valve, but I don't know how to determine if it is built into a particular master cylinder. I would be interested to know how to determine this, if you can explain it.
Thanks
check out this article on chtopping's web site http://www.chtopping.com/example7/example7.html. in section 9. it shows some pictures and explanation. i think the article will do a better job than i could ever do in explaining it. this article is talking about mustang mcs, but i think this could be extrapolated to other mc (?), because everything i've read to date implies you need a 10 psi residual check valve on drums to counter the springs on the drums. perhaps it may be incorporated into some combination valves, but i've never heard or read about that being done and it wouldn't be cost effective to manufactures to install inline residual valves.
rick