87 460 4spd problem
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Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2012
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87 460 4spd problem
i have a 1987 f250 with a 460 and a 4spd with granny low. the transmission seems to shift fine through the gears, but when it is in gear, the shifter still has a lot of slop in it. i have read a lot on the zf5 speeds, but havent seen anything on the four speeds.
what kind of transmission do i have?
what can i do to fix the slop?
is it possible to swap in a zf5 speed out of a newer truck?
thanks
ryan
what kind of transmission do i have?
what can i do to fix the slop?
is it possible to swap in a zf5 speed out of a newer truck?
thanks
ryan
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
You likely have a T-19 4 speed with synchronized first gear.
If it's 4x4 you have the ultra low 6.32 first gear.
You can tell, if it has a PTO 'window' (plate) on the drivers side of the box.
Certainly you can swap in a later Zf... I have.
Be aware that you need the clutch and flywheel from a 5 speed as well.
The input splines of the ZF-5 are larger, and the pressure plate is drilled in a different pattern than the 4 speed flywheel.
HTH,
If it's 4x4 you have the ultra low 6.32 first gear.
You can tell, if it has a PTO 'window' (plate) on the drivers side of the box.
Certainly you can swap in a later Zf... I have.
Be aware that you need the clutch and flywheel from a 5 speed as well.
The input splines of the ZF-5 are larger, and the pressure plate is drilled in a different pattern than the 4 speed flywheel.
HTH,
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 558
From: Central Wisconsin
If your first gear isn't synchronized (grinds when you put it in gear) you have an NP435 which has a stump puller, and almost useless first gear unless your pulling a full load. There is likely a plate on the tranny that says some words on it. If it says anything borg warner, it should be a T19, maybe T18? If it says New Process, you have the NP 435.
This page has info on the Borg Warner trannys
The Borg-Warner T18 & T19 Transmissions - Novak Conversions
This page has info on the NP 435
The New Process 435 Transmission - Novak Conversions
I have the NP435 in my truck and I like it so far. I swapped it in place of a ZF5 tranny.
As a response to the last part of ArdWrknTrk's post, I don't know if that's really true. I have a pressure plate, clutch, and flywheel from the ZF5 with the 4 speed and it worked out fine.
I guess maybe I should add that I ran into an issue because my master cylinder went out at the same time as the clutch. So I removed all the hydraulic linkage and put in a mechanical set up when going to the 4 speed.
But anyway, yeah you can put in the 5 speed, the OD gear will probably be nice, but the ZF isn't as tough as the old 4 speeds.
This page has info on the Borg Warner trannys
The Borg-Warner T18 & T19 Transmissions - Novak Conversions
This page has info on the NP 435
The New Process 435 Transmission - Novak Conversions
I have the NP435 in my truck and I like it so far. I swapped it in place of a ZF5 tranny.
As a response to the last part of ArdWrknTrk's post, I don't know if that's really true. I have a pressure plate, clutch, and flywheel from the ZF5 with the 4 speed and it worked out fine.
I guess maybe I should add that I ran into an issue because my master cylinder went out at the same time as the clutch. So I removed all the hydraulic linkage and put in a mechanical set up when going to the 4 speed.
But anyway, yeah you can put in the 5 speed, the OD gear will probably be nice, but the ZF isn't as tough as the old 4 speeds.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
The ZF's splines and whole friction disc are larger than the one that came in front of my T-19.
EDIT; BW box has an 1 1/16-10 spline input, the ZF is 1 1/4". So, I have to question that.
If you went the other way, it may be that your 4 speed friction disc is not using all of the outer diameter of the pressure plate.
But the disc won't work with a T-19... FOR SURE.
I was not aware of any NP gearboxes available in the 86-87 model years. (I was looking at leftovers as well, when I bought my '87)
EDIT; BW box has an 1 1/16-10 spline input, the ZF is 1 1/4". So, I have to question that.
If you went the other way, it may be that your 4 speed friction disc is not using all of the outer diameter of the pressure plate.
But the disc won't work with a T-19... FOR SURE.
I was not aware of any NP gearboxes available in the 86-87 model years. (I was looking at leftovers as well, when I bought my '87)
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 558
From: Central Wisconsin
My NP435 came from an 87 F350 with a 7.3 IDI 4x4. I had to get a bellhousing from a 302 to match it up to my 351w. It was a pain. I called up a couple local salvage yards, and had them both call around to see what they could find, and they both got a hold of one salvage yard out of Green Bay, WI that had the only one listed in their salvage yard in the state.
But you may be right, it might not be using the entire diameter. I guess I really don't know for sure, but your idea sounds right to me.
But you may be right, it might not be using the entire diameter. I guess I really don't know for sure, but your idea sounds right to me.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 558
From: Central Wisconsin
And if they ONLY came behind diesels, we can rule out that he has one behind his 460, so he would have the BW. Good work team. LOL
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Thanks to both of you who responded. That is great information. It does not grind going into first gear. I can go from reverse to first when backing out my driveway with no grinding at all so it must be the t19 or t18. Again, thanks to both of you guys who responded.
So what should i do to get rid of the side to side slop once it is in gear?
Is it a wearable part?
Is it a major repair?
I will read the link provided and see what it has to say, but i thought I would post it up incase someone knew off the top of their head.
Thanks again
Ryan
So what should i do to get rid of the side to side slop once it is in gear?
Is it a wearable part?
Is it a major repair?
I will read the link provided and see what it has to say, but i thought I would post it up incase someone knew off the top of their head.
Thanks again
Ryan
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BW box has an 1 1/16-10 spline input, the ZF is 1 1/4"
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