I have a guy who called me trying to get his old uhaul back on the road for his business. it is a 1990 7.3 e350. the guy who was driving the van said that he drove approx 15mi and then the engine just shutdown. when i got to it i found that the plastic return caps that sit on the top of the injectors were leaking past the orings. go the seal kit and replaced all orings caps and fuel lines that were leaking. cranked it over and bled the system, started and ran for all of about 30 to 40 seconds before it shutdown, at idle. i noticed that there was slight seapage of fuel coming from the top of the filter housing which i believe is the fuel heater, but i question how relevant it is to the actual problem i am having as the filter hadnt lost prime. i left the key on while i checked power to the shutoff solenoid. found that the solenoid itself would get hot and no longer magnetize. replaced shutoff solenoid and bled and started the engine again. the result is the same i can get it run for a few seconds but it shuts down almost immediately, i dont know if its relevant but theres no stumble before it shuts down and it will shut down at anytime no matter what the engine speed is, full throttle, half throttle or idle. I checked the fuel filter again and it was still full. could this be an ip problem? lift pump problem? air intrusion problem? im not that familiar with the old setup but the unit seems simple enough, i got away from thinking it was an air intrusion issue because of the way that it shuts down, the primed filter, and the fact that i can leave 1 of the injectors opened while its running and it shutsdown exactly the same way as it would if it was closed... any help with this?

 

also everything that ive read in these forums so far has suggested that the ip will shut it down once hot but if cooled could work again. the unit as it stands right now doesnt get hot enough for this symptom to apply

 

a lift pump problem wouldn't have allowed the system to prime after the work you've already done, so thats not it.
air intrusion usually allows the engine to run for maybe 3 seconds after startup, then stalls and is a devil to start again because you have to crank the engine until the lift pump gets fuel back up there. that doesn't sound like your issue. i mean the points that are leaking should be addressed, but aren't your main problem.
it sure sounds to me like the fuel shutoff solenoid (FSS) is either losing power or else the replacement you installed is just as bad as the original. i've heard that these always produce a certain amount of heat, and the flow of fuel past them keeps them cool. if they're not too expensive, you might try another new FSS just in case you got a bad one.
or if the fuel system is more than about 100k miles old, its time for a new (rebuilt) IP and injectors anyway, so that might be the best long-term approach if they're of unknown age.
but i think the current problem has to be in the IP, at/around that FSS.

 

ya i was just reading that there is an additional transfer pump inside the ip as well before the hyd. head. if the system stays primes and it simply is not producing the volume or pressure to the hyd head is it possible that this is my issue??? by the guys own admission he has neglected this van for a long time. when i got to it there were several leaks and several things that i found alone that could have added to this problem, however its hard to ignore something that you know is an issue and move on to what else it could be. the valley between the heads (intake) is a giant puddle of diesel. I know that there is a fuel line on the return side that runs down there that i have not replaced. I was reading that if there is any kind of fuel leak in the return system and it returns to the filter that it would stall the engine. like i said tho it acts as though you just shut the engine down by key, (take away power from the fss) according to ford and international the internal components in the ip arents serviceable and therefore not available for purchase seperate from a new ip... i suspect the ip but i just dont wanna throw parts at this thing and hope for the best.

also worth noting i got the fss that i replaced from the local junkyard but i did check it before installation and it was operating normally

 

also. it is a b*tch to start, its not like i just turn the key and its there, it does act like i have to reprime the system, again if its the pump inside the ip would it allow it to run for 30 seconds or so before it couldnt keep up? and throughout various rpms?

 

ok, i've never heard of the FSS itself being a failure item. i was wondering if you managed to find one at a parts store in some house-brand that might be junk. not the case, so thats not a problem i would pursue.

the starting difficulty is surely air intrusion, with all the leaks you mentioned. the easiest thing to do for now is to install an electric pump in place of the original lift pump, then it'll prime the system while the glow plugs warm up, you hit the key, and its able to start much easier. but DON'T put the pump between the tank and the lift pump and leave it there, because a failure in the lift pump could then allow the e-pump to fill the crankcase with fuel. plenty to read on the subject, so moving on.

the fact that cranking the engine enough does bring up enough fuel for it it start, proves that the lift pump is working. the transfer pump inside the IP can't pull fuel up from the tank, no matter how long you crank on it.

for all the return line issues, do a search for "olives", thats the common name for rubber compression fitting inserts that seal the steel parts of the return lines, such as the lines leaving the filter head and the front of the IP. those are sure to be in at least as bad of shape as the injector o-rings.

i don't know the guy who owns it or his finances, but you mentioned he uses it for business, so it might be good to tell him that if you can spend the money for a rebuild IP and new injectors, the truck will run better than he's ever seen it run, and will save him money on fuel. we're talking around 500 bucks for a rebuilt IP, a couple hundred for the injectors.
if i can be blunt here, anything less is simply trying to put this off, and won't have long-term results.

one other thing, as you're playing it, you might want to take the lift pump's inlet hose and drop it in a 5 gallon can of diesel, that way it doesn't have to suck fuel near as far to re-prime itself.

 

good point im not used to working on these little things but all in all the same concept different scale as a semi though just a little older technology than im used to.
as far as you being blunt, it is a 1990 and a former uhaul truck, i dont think i have to say this guy doesnt like to spend money even when it is a wise investment. i tried to talk him into a new ip, i skipped the injectors but when he found out the pump from ford was gonna run near 600 he about ***** himself. I know like everyone who has ever turned a wrench that there is no value in taking shortcuts, but this guy is the type that likes to put a bandaid over cancer. like I said i want these parts replaced but the guarantee that this is the last problem in the system is what im looking for you know.

 

i understand, but we all know that guarantee never exists.
i'm running my business out of an 87 diesel contractor van, which might say something about the way i handle my wallet. but i've put a lot into it, hell i spent $1500 on the rear axle alone, first 500 was for a locking diff which i installed myself, then nearly 1000 for a r+p when i broke the pinion (including labor).
and then we have all the built in equipment (toolboxes, inverter with aux batteries, air compressors, etc), and i don't know how much i've spent, or how much i've saved by hunting down good deals. when i need an IP, it'll happen right then.

but back to your situation, you might go back to that junkyard and pull the IP that you took that FSS from, or a complete one if they have it, and install that in place of the existing one.fire it up and see what happens, you just might win, and it'll be within his kind of budget.

what part of the world are you in?

 

i hear ya im not ******* the van at all, but lets face it a used uhaul has been nothing but abused and neglected. as far as the ip as i was talking to the parts guy at ford, and this might have been his sales pitch. the ip from 1 truck to another can be a disaster as they are individually tuned for different climates to different usages.
Im in california by the way, apparently not many people believe in scrapping idi's here. I found 1 and pulled the fss off of it.
This guy needs to understand that sometimes it takes money to make money. his business, which is a nursery depends on this van running as much as it depends on the bobcat i fixed for him last week. the thousand dollars he would spend getting this thing working again would be made back in a matter of a week, hes just got to pull the trigger and make it happen.

 

oh, so he would put a bumper sticker over a rust hole

we don't have many IDIs here in our local junkyards either. last week they had 2 in there at the same time, one which i'd already pulled all the good stuff from, and one they got in since then. i was surprised, i've often seen them go for months without any.

as for moving an IP from one engine to another, i've never heard anything bad about doing it. they're all built to factory specs unless the customer has a very specific request for something custom, which is uncommon. but even if its not perfect, its likely to be better than what its got in there now.

i know how those customers can be, they expect a million miles out of something without doing 100k worth of maintenance. just think what his air intrusion problems cost him in batteries and starters, and downtime playing with jumper cables. but we see how he is.


now you have to ask yourself if this is a customer worth keeping, thats your call not mine. i know how hard it is to turn away work

 

ya this guy is actually a friend who took over his parents business, im just starting out with my business, i worked on construction equipment for years so i figured he was a good person to start out with, all customers are guilty of that stereotype the, put a fuel filter and an oil change and you wont have to touch it again for a year type of person.

back to the uhaul though, Im NOT sure how the return system works exactly, the left bank returns to the filter in the front, then in the rear connects to the right bank and then the front of the right connects to the top of the ip. if its a supply side leak, and my filter is staying full it would have to be inbetween the ip and the filter right?, but as i said im no familiar with how big of a role that the return side plays in the supply, as far as a semi all that i have seen, you can disconnect the return line from the back of the head and youll lose fallons per minute but wont affect the supply at all

 

Dave, have you done a pressure and flow check at the schrader valve? You should have a minimum of 5-7 lbs while cranking the motor. If that checks our remove the core from the schrader valve, slip a hose over it and route it into a container, and crank it over for 10 seconds. You should get at least 1/3 pint in that time. I have seen a lift pump put fuel to the filter, but not have what it takes to run the engine.

 

i know that i have flow, i talked to a guy at ford and he said at the filter head its only supposed to be at 2psi which seems to me rather low. i also came across this...

The next common area for air leaks on both the 6.9 and 7.3 engines is at the injector return cap o-rings and hoses. This will cause the engine to stall after about 30 seconds of running if the air is able to travel into the fuel filter. On 6.9 engines the return line from the filter should be long enough to loop about four inches above the filter.
The 6.9 can be modified to have a check valve at the fuel filter return to prevent air from entering the filter. A 7.3 Econoline filter outlet fitting (E8TZ-9C402-A) can be installed in place of the original outlet fitting. An early 3/16" 7.3 filter return orifice with a "flapper" valve can be installed into the port ment for the E-van's restricted filter sensor.
On 7.3 engine the filter return orifice contains a check valve. This check valve is usually a rubber flap inside the fitting, and if this fails air is drawn into the filter as the fuel cools and contracts. This can be detected by removing the fitting and trying to blow through it from the hose barb end. If you are able to blow through it from this direction, it needs to be replaced. Seal the threads on the orifice with Loctite 515 Gasket Eliminator or PST. There are two different flapper valve orifices--3/16" and 1/4"--and the correct one needs to be used with the coresponding hose size or leaks may occur. Starting in 92 a 1/4" filter orifice was introduced without a flapper valve using a spring and plastic check ball. The spring-and-ball and flapper orifices are not interchangable; they have different headers. Also, the correct size return lines hose needs to be matched to the injector caps and the proper clamps used--not worm-gear, this will distort the hose; either OEM spring clamps or fuel injection system screw-and-band type. When replacing injector return o-rings on one injector, you should replace all on that cylinder head as they tend to leak after they have been disturbed. Use silicone dielectric grease to aid in reassembly and some times it helps to install a third o-ring between the return cap and injector line nut to keep the cap in place.

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/idi2.htm


I took care of the return caps that i saw leaking and all the hoses with the exception of the hose in the rear of the engine, i cant tell if its leaking because its in a puddle of diesel, i might just wanna go ahead and replace it anyways. I checked flow by pulling the filter and cranking the engine over, it seemed to be sufficient but i have yet to put a gauge on it. i also checked the shrader valve while cranking and there was fuel present but as i said i have yet to put a pressure gauge on it.

this is the only thing i have seen that comes close to a description of my problem. it starts runs then shuts down, takes a few tries to get it going again, then it starts and runs and shuts down, as i said it doesnt matter the engine speed, seems like its on a timer to only run for so long. i ran it with a test light stuck in the spade terminal for the fss and power to it was never interrupted. the wire going to the cold start terminal however has no power which from what ive read i suspect might slow down actually getting it to start again. ive been on this thing for almost a week, i replaced the fss had it running, sounded good, got out started picking up all my tools and it shutdown... back to square 1 with the only difference being that all return side fuel leaks have been taken care of that i can c

 

If you have replaced all the return line on top of the engine, the return fuel line at the rear, drivers side will not cause a stalling of the engine after the engine is running. You could remove it compleatly and the engine should still run, making a hell of a mess, with the return fuel the pump is making.
My next move would do as Josh said in post #6, remove the supply side fuel line from the lift pump, and install a length of fuel line to the pump there. Run the other end into a container of fuel and try to run it. If it stays running, that points to a fuel supply problem before the lift pump. Pin holes in the fuel line from the tank sender comes to mind, as they can rust out. If it still stalls out, the problem is the lift pump, or some where after.

 

ok ill give that a try the guy actually went out and got a injector pump because he got a second opinion and the guy told him the thing needed to be replaced 100k mi ago. so now he wants to do that but i dont think thats his only prob. would like to think so as i have been dealing with this thing for over a week now and really havent covered much ground with it