"Strokers are cool, but 347's are not. They burn oil and they aren't very durable."

that is ridiculous. the only people who think they burn oil are the ones who read too many magazines. if youd like to argue the finer points, ill glady hear them out. whether its angularity, ringstack, or compression height, ive heard it all before, and i know the half-*** arguments already.

anyone who builds a 347 that burns oil is incompetent. they should not be building engines in the first place. the 5.315 inch rod will produce a perfectly acceptable ring stack, and the 5.4 rod motors are no different, even if theyve got an intersected oil ring. do you know how long people have been building strokers with intersected rings for? a long time. the enthusiasts out there that scream about how much oil a 347 burns are the same ones who have stock engines in their cars and trucks and a large stack of Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords magazines in their living rooms. its an argument thats based entirely on ignorance.

on the durability point, ive never seen a 3.4 inch 8.2 deck crank that wasnt superior to the stock windsor crank. or for that matter, any rod or piston combo that wasnt better, either. durability is a non-issue. the 347 does nothing to the block that the 351 doesnt do, including the rate of wear.

"NEVER build a 347 to put in a vehicle that a 351W will fit into."

i disagree here as well. if youve already got a good set of heads and an intake, you would be a fool to choose a 351 over a 347. the 351 weighs more, costs more (in this instance), has more rotating mass, and has more frictional drag. all of the journals are larger in the 351. three quarters of an inch of load bearing surface on the mains alone! a journal on a windsor singing at 6000 rpm is covering 18000 inches of bearing per minute, compared to a 302 based crank, which crosses only 13500 inches. this is why no one uses a 3 inch main in a race motor, short of big block classes at levels above Pro Stock. even then, the only reason they do that is because 2000 hp engines need larger crankshafts, period.

youve also got to remember that a 351 has much more rotating weight, which is NOT a good thing for reliability or horsepower production.

given the same cylinder heads, compression, intake runner volume, and camshaft, a 347 will make an average of 15 more horsepower than an equally well-built 3.5 x 4.00 windsor. it is also lighter, as was already mentioned.

"347's are for those Rustang drivers that can't get a 351 under there hood without a torch."

by torch, you meant headers and oil pan, right?

i didnt need a torch to put a windsor in my 90 LX. you dont need a torch for the early cars. even the Pinto-based mustangs accepted them readily.

the last mustang to have a 351 was the 95 Cobra R, which started out on the same production line as the 3.8 and 5.0 mustangs of that year. the chassis is identical, no structural concessions were made for the added engine girth. its about time some people realized that 1.3 inches of deck height (between castings that came from the same family of core boxes) isnt much to speak of.

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i saw alot of erroneous statements in your post, BlueOvalRage, but im not here to nitpick them all.

nor am i implying that the windsor isnt a better overall engine. however, the 347 has its place, and it is better than a stock stroke windsor. you just need to separate the facts from the garbage you read in magazines.

 

there are sevearl differences between a 302 and a H.O but since you are boring it anyway the stock forged pistons do not help but hey the roller cam helps out and really if ya want to keep your 302 thats fine i would just suggest changing the fireing order to the H.O/351 it takes load off of the #1 main bearing ,you have to buy a cam anyway...

 

Hmm... This is getting interesting. I read more and more about Ford engines every day and everyones opinion here hasn't seem 'd to change anything. Mainly because everyone got a little off topic with the fact of putting a whole new engine in the truck? This is what he said :

I own a '87 F-150 w/ a 5.0. I need close to or above the 350hp range. What applications are recommended for this process. (Besides swaping motors) Thanx

This is why I was saying that it is totally possible to get the HP and Tourque you want out of the 5.0..... So the answer to your question is, do some shopping around in catalogs and call places and talk to someone who knows the most about the parts you want to put into your 5.0... The first main things you want to upgrade your engine are Carb, Intake, Cam, Crank, (depending on the aplication) And then, a rebuild kit with new pistons. And then don't go cheap on the small parts like rockers, valves, springs, and everything else. You will also need to upgrade your ignition system of you want to get the most out of it. MSD is the best I have come across. I believe Mallory is #2. But different people will give you different opinions and results. Just research all of this stuff yourself instead of asking it on here. Live and learn. And good luck with it. Sounds like a fun project!

 

Whoa, back the truck up, Culpepper. I personally could give a rat's a$$ less what you think about me or my comments, but you'll do no one any favors by personally attacking the posters on this board. Constructive criticism and debate are beneficial to everyone here, but egomaniacal rants and name calling serve no purpose besides exposing your childishness.

I will not debate the finer points of 347 geometry and parts selection with you. You obviously know what you're talking about. But don't insinuate that I don't either. My statements were simply a generalization. You know as well as I do that you can't just "assemble" a stroker motor of any sort, and definitely not a 347. There isn't any room for negligence, poor assembly technique, or error when you are pushing an engine design to it's far limits. With Ebay and the proliferation of cheap, mass produced stroker kits, it's entirely too easy to choose substandard parts and end up with an engine that sucks 10W-30 through a straw and won't last very long by trying to save a couple bucks. I've broken two kids' bank accounts after they screwed together and altogether screwed up stroker variations of a 302 and brought them to me to straighten out. One tried to use a 289 block and the other bought a cheap kit and assumed that it was machined correctly. Can you build a strong, efficient, and durable 347? Oh, probably. Can I? I've done it before. My point here is that your average, inexperienced backyard mechanic can't. Not without a lot of help. Therefore, I don't even recommend it. Why encourage a guy who has limited chances of success?

We can debate whether or not a 347 is a better choice than a 351W until we're both taking dirt naps and you won't change my mind. You're right in as much as a 347 does have it's place and advantages. Sure you can jam a 351W into a pile of non-stock applications, but don't try to tell me that a lot of them aren't a real bitch. You're racing Mustangs. A stroked 302 suits you just fine and will result in a whole lot less heartburn and cash outlay for parts. The rest of us are driving trucks. Given a choice, I can't ever justify building a stroker variation of a 302 for anything that will "easily" accept a 351W. Why shell out big bills for a maxed out version of an engine when you can choose another block that will give you nearly the same results with stock dimensions and still have room to grow? The weight differences are negligible in a truck. Remember, most of us aren't racing. You are. And I fail to see how a stock dimensioned 351W can possibly (in this instance) cost more than a well built 347 after you've bought a decent stroker kit and paid for the block to be clearanced if necessary, machinework finished and checked, etc. My checkbook says it's the other way around. I will concede on rotating mass and drag. But again, in a truck that will doubtfully see the engine spin past 5000 RPM, who cares?!? As for already owning 302 heads and an intake, well, we both know that stock heads can be redrilled and aftermarket heads are usually already at 1/2". Compared to the pricetag on a stroker kit, a new intake is small potatoes. I'm still not convinced.

No, I didn't mean the pan and headers. Ever try to get a stock Mustang hood to shut with an EFI intake? Maybe I'm not holding my mouth right. If so, I'm sure you'll let me know.

I don't know why you've come in here to pick a fight, but you damn sure didn't show up to answer this guy's post. Did you even read it?!? He wants 350 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque out of an EFI 302 in a truck that he's going to go off-roading in. FAST no less. I know what he really wants. So do you. Lots of torque and power way low where he can use it. Does he truly sound like a candidate for building a 347? You can't do that in a weekend. Not the right way. Quick is an engine swap or a power adder.

It's no secret, Adam. I don't like Mustangs and I don't particularly like 302's or any variation of them. Why? I'm sick of them. Damn good engines in a nimble chassis, but after doing my time, I'm tired of them. Bored to tears. It was time to do something different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can make one do anything a bigger engine can. What do you want? A Bozo button? Yeah, I left holes in my post and sure my motives are a little vague. So what? No point in leaving a 10 page proof of why I suggest what I do. We can chat about the virtues of roller cams and squabble about power adders or anything else you choose to take issue with. None of that will make this guy any happier with his truck.
Call my post erroneous if you like. I'm pretty sure I won't lose any sleep over it. It sure sounds that way after you finished putting words in my mouth. Fell free to stuff my shorts in yours.

 

"you'll do no one any favors by personally attacking the posters on this board."

please quote a personal attack i made towards you in any post prior to this. otherwise, rescind your statement.

what youre doing here is called "pouting." you made several incorrect statements, and i corrected them. thats all there is to it. its not my fault that youre wrong, so im not going to take the blame for it.

"Constructive criticism and debate are beneficial to everyone here, but egomaniacal rants and name calling..."

im not egomaniacal. i just know more than you do.

"....serve no purpose besides exposing your childishness."

well, if basing my statements on facts (instead of magazine propaganda) makes me a child, then so be it. ill run circles around you in my tricycle until you fall down and break your hip, old man.

"You know as well as I do that you can't just "assemble" a stroker motor of any sort, and definitely not a 347. There isn't any room for negligence, poor assembly technique, or error when you are pushing an engine design to it's far limits."

all engines should be assembled with the same care. i fail to see your point here. if you think you can just "slap together" a stock 302, then youll end up with the same crackhead motor anyone else would.

"I've broken two kids' bank accounts... One tried to use a 289 block..."

explain whats wrong with a 289 block? i bet its something you read in a magazine. i get the feeling im about to catch you in a lie. i wont correct you ahead of time, ill let the suspense build.

"Can you build a strong, efficient, and durable 347? Oh, probably. Can I? I've done it before. My point here is that your average, inexperienced backyard mechanic can't. Not without a lot of help."

anyone who can build a 302 can build a 347. anyone who cant build a 302 cant build a 347. dont make yourself out to be some master engine builder just because you know how to use a stick of Plastigauge and a torque wrench.

"And I fail to see how a stock dimensioned 351W can possibly (in this instance) cost more than a well built 347 after you've bought a decent stroker kit....."

very simple. in order to swap in a 351, you have to pay for a new block, new rotating assembly, new exhaust, new intake manifold, new fasteners, new pan, and new balancer/flywheel. if hes already got a 302, all he needs is a new rotating assembly. he doesnt need a high dollar kit. he just needs to mic it and check all his clearances and runout.

"and paid for the block to be clearanced if necessary"

its not an issue of "if necessary." it must be done in all347's. but then again, what sort of ******* is going to pay someone to do the clearancing for them? the same person who takes their truck to Jjiffy Lube, i guess. its not very hard. you take a grinder, and you notch the cylinders. lather, rinse, repeat.

no ASE certification required.

"No, I didn't mean the pan and headers. Ever try to get a stock Mustang hood to shut with an EFI intake?"

yes, i have. its not very hard to do at all. with stock mounts (non-convertible), all you have to do is pull the heat blanket off the hood, and the Cobra intake will clear. if you want to use a taller intake, get a set of drop mounts or a taller hood. with a carb, the Torquer and regular Performer, as well as a slew of Offy intakes, will clear. a Cleveland with a Torker II (one of the best manifolds available for that engine) will clear without a problem.

again, stop reading magazines.

"Did you even read it?!? He wants 350 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque out of an EFI 302 in a truck that he's going to go off-roading in. FAST no less. I know what he really wants. So do you. Lots of torque and power way low where he can use it. Does he truly sound like a candidate for building a 347? You can't do that in a weekend."

of course i read it. in fact, i soaked in more than you did, apparently.

he said he wanted to stay with a five liter. its common sense that you cant make 350 usable hp in a truck application with 302 inches. stay on track here, Mr. Rage. its obvious that his only option is a 302 based stroker.

the 347 is a better engine than a stock 351. therefore, it is the best choice for him. instead of stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum, you should either come up with some factoid to dispute this, or move on.

"So you can make one do anything a bigger engine can."

no, thats not true at all. there isnt a naturally apirated 302 CID ford engine in the WORLD that will make the same HP my naturally aspirated windsor-based motor will. last time i checked, Comp Eliminator 302's (3.0 inch stroke SVO 9.2 deck engines) make about 750-790 hp. and thats that. if you need more power on motor only, you need to move up in displacement.

but we arent speaking in generalizations, despite how much youd like to imply otherwise. we are talking about one (1) engine for one (1) truck. in this application, a 347 is better, and is his best choice. dont talk about growth, or whatever you called it, because we dont build engines for the power we might make. we build them for the power we will make.

"Yeah, I left holes in my post and sure my motives are a little vague."

holes, craters, whatever.....

"Call my post erroneous if you like."

yes sir.

"Fell free to stuff my shorts in yours."

thats a shame. a perfectly good insult, ruined by terrible spelling. you could have at least misspelled some word other than the first. sheesh.
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what we have here is a case of jealousy, i think.

im serious. i really am.

instead of admitting that im right, as he should have done from the beginning, BlueOvalRage has gone on to fill an entire post with tangental points that dont address whats truly wrong with what he said.

im not going to apologize for correcting things that simply arent true (oil burner, torch, cost, etc.....). what he said was simply wrong. the entire slant of his first post was based on assumptions and hearsay about things hes never actually seen first-hand. anyone who wants to argue a point should feel free to. if youre wrong, i will call you on it. a real man wouldnt get mad over that. but hey, maybe im just being childish again.

 

I have looked at centrifugal chargers and it has been my understanding it runs cooler. I dont know about kenne bell but what evidence shows burn out from centrifugal. From experience with Toyota's and Honda's I know for fact NOS is nothing but bad news.

Whats wrong with mustangs? had your doors blown of by to many of them?

 

Lets be frank shall we? All this psychobabble is wasting my time, all im trying to do is read some opinions on what i should do with my 302, instead i have to sit here and waste my time reading through 4 paragraphs of bickering back and forth and low and behold, what do i find? A couple of sentences of what i should do with my motor. I know you 2 are just trying to dispute the differences between a 302 and a 351, and i hear where youre coming from, but he's right, i'm sticking with the 302. I know the 351 can make boat loads more power, but do i care? NO. 350hp will sefice quite nicley, esspecially in this application. I'm not trying to make a swamp buggy or a top fuel mud racer here, this truck will not have 44" boggers on it slinging 60 ft. rooster tails behind me. OK? If the 302 ( 347 ) makes 350hp will the motor be maxed out? if so i will have no other choice but to move along to the 351, and another thing, weight is not an issue here, this truck will have the dana ifs 44 and the 8.8 removed and replaced with 3/4 ton axels and they will house 4.56 gears. So lets stop this non-sence and help me! ( you know, the guy who started this thread) Thanx guys

 

the cheapest way to go would be to carb it.

347, aluminum heads, good cam 750 holley, I see no problem making 350 hp.

Or you could spend big $$ and redo your whole efi system to support it.

 

It wont be maxed out. you can get up to 750hp out of a 302 block If you got the time and money. The stock stroke and heads are whats ******* your block. There is no rocket science to stroking a 302 go for it if that is what you want as it will be your best bet for the power you want. There is reason why you can not keep your EFI you will need larger ingectors and reprogramed module so that your new 347 is not starving for fuel also be ready to spend a little more at the pump. A stroker with the proper head, cam and intake will give you the 350hp your looking for. You dont have to supercharge it, but it would be a little more fun .

 

I have been reading through this and I see valid points for keeping the 302, upgrading to a 347 and changing to a 351. Which do I think is the best, personally I like the 351W, it makes about 275 HP and 350lb/ft of torque from the factory. Why do I like the 351, well it has a better bottom end, this is a truck and if you are going to get any kind of mileage out of it you will want taller gears than 4.56. The 347 is a viable transplant for a drag truck or something that is actually going to see the 4500-7000 rpm where that engine kicks.....well. The stock 302 is still a good choice why?, because the Kenne Bell supercharger really livens up this motor. Keep in mind that this is not a Mustang or a vehicle that will see 5-7000 RPMs.

And by the way bickering never solves anything it just forces other to leave and their valuable information is lost.

 

Ten four! on the supercharged 347

 

Carb would be good... But, its a 4x4... If you had EFI wouldnt that make it a little more relyable while hill climbing or if you roll over? That is... If you know as much about EFI as you do Carb? Base the aplication on what knowledge you already have about your truck. Do you know more about Carb or EFI? I meen Carb and EFI have there up and down sides.... EFI would be better on gas mileage if it were to be a daily driver... Carb would be great for raw power.... But if you have EFI why change? I do admit it is alot simpler.... But if you know about EFI then you would understand what I am talking about. I hope everyone stops bitching and helps this guy out.... I know I am trying but I am more of a street/strip person, and not so much into off road... I hope I helped a little.

 

Jugwa

You really haven't given these guys enough info to go you an informed answer. How long does it have to last and how much money you have for this upgrade. What gears and tire size you running? What RPMs range do you need power in for rock crawling.

This blown stroker 347 sounds real neat, but the total installed price tag to quality build it is going to be scary. It will make a milder built 351W start looking attractive to those of us on any sort of a budget.