How to Finish DPF Regeneration While Parked
#31
10-05-2015, 09:06 AM
#32
10-05-2015, 02:16 PM
Members:
Just my thoughts. I’m not an Expert.
I’m a person that just has to know. It started with my 2008 6.4L when they started putting DPFs in diesel vehicle. I too would just pull onto my street on my way home and the truck would go into Regen. Now I have a 2013 which uses DEF and asked a Diesel Tech what he would recommend to monitor certain thing on my 2013 6.7L and other vehicles. Simply him knowing my back ground, introduced me to $5 Android App called Torque Pro. Google it or maybe readthrough the link below. It might not be for everyone, I simply think that somemembers might want to know.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1322804-torque-pro-ford-6-7l-extended-pids.html
Back to topic:
I too believe that most folks don’t have to worry about the Regen process nor want to. I myself use my truck as a daily driver and feel the need to monitor the DPF system as well as other sensors. Since I was the first in my circle of friends to have a DPF and now monitor it, I have been asked my thoughts. Simply most of them have asked me questions after buying a vehicle and it is little wonder if they knew before if they would buy a diesel.
I’ve monitored and collected real time data my DPF system for two years before I had the Recall done this spring and it has changed. Simply I don’t have to stare at a screen all the time, the App can log it and if I choose to look at it at a later date, I can.
I have a multiple custom made screens setup that I can scroll through and display, one of them is the DPF system (PIDs).
On that screen I have Soot%, Soot Mass (load), Distance since Last Completed Active Regen, EGT2 and an indicator (light) that comes on when my truck is in Active Regen. This is why I believe that the Regen process has changed after the recall, I do see pros and cons. I did have Ford documents that explained the Regen and DEF process before the recall, but again it has changed.
My truck will try to go into Regen every 500 miles, if it doesn’t I can look at the other parameters to understand why it didn’t. It also will subtract about 200 miles from this counter if I stop the Regen process (eg.park and shut off the engine) depending on the Soot Load. Simply the PCM watches miles and Soot Load to start an Active Regen, It is when I do certain driving habits that will change things. The PCM programming watches the distance between completed Regens. The PCM also has to recalibrate to set a baseline for sensors, one reason is for ash residual in the DPF that is not removed during the Regen process.
Sorry about the length but there is a scientific reason why certain trucks are doing what their doing. I understand why Ford doesn’t want to feed us too much information, but they are leaving it up to people like me that need to know and might be getting it wrong. Yesterday a person asked me after having his 6.7L for 9 months how to fill up this DEF tank because the message came up, some folks don’t read the manual, I wish some times I could be like that. But either way I’m great full for this forum.
Sorry again about the length, and a little off topic.
Just my thoughts. I’m not an Expert.
I’m a person that just has to know. It started with my 2008 6.4L when they started putting DPFs in diesel vehicle. I too would just pull onto my street on my way home and the truck would go into Regen. Now I have a 2013 which uses DEF and asked a Diesel Tech what he would recommend to monitor certain thing on my 2013 6.7L and other vehicles. Simply him knowing my back ground, introduced me to $5 Android App called Torque Pro. Google it or maybe readthrough the link below. It might not be for everyone, I simply think that somemembers might want to know.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1322804-torque-pro-ford-6-7l-extended-pids.html
Back to topic:
I too believe that most folks don’t have to worry about the Regen process nor want to. I myself use my truck as a daily driver and feel the need to monitor the DPF system as well as other sensors. Since I was the first in my circle of friends to have a DPF and now monitor it, I have been asked my thoughts. Simply most of them have asked me questions after buying a vehicle and it is little wonder if they knew before if they would buy a diesel.
I’ve monitored and collected real time data my DPF system for two years before I had the Recall done this spring and it has changed. Simply I don’t have to stare at a screen all the time, the App can log it and if I choose to look at it at a later date, I can.
I have a multiple custom made screens setup that I can scroll through and display, one of them is the DPF system (PIDs).
On that screen I have Soot%, Soot Mass (load), Distance since Last Completed Active Regen, EGT2 and an indicator (light) that comes on when my truck is in Active Regen. This is why I believe that the Regen process has changed after the recall, I do see pros and cons. I did have Ford documents that explained the Regen and DEF process before the recall, but again it has changed.
My truck will try to go into Regen every 500 miles, if it doesn’t I can look at the other parameters to understand why it didn’t. It also will subtract about 200 miles from this counter if I stop the Regen process (eg.park and shut off the engine) depending on the Soot Load. Simply the PCM watches miles and Soot Load to start an Active Regen, It is when I do certain driving habits that will change things. The PCM programming watches the distance between completed Regens. The PCM also has to recalibrate to set a baseline for sensors, one reason is for ash residual in the DPF that is not removed during the Regen process.
Sorry about the length but there is a scientific reason why certain trucks are doing what their doing. I understand why Ford doesn’t want to feed us too much information, but they are leaving it up to people like me that need to know and might be getting it wrong. Yesterday a person asked me after having his 6.7L for 9 months how to fill up this DEF tank because the message came up, some folks don’t read the manual, I wish some times I could be like that. But either way I’m great full for this forum.
Sorry again about the length, and a little off topic.
#33
10-05-2015, 07:37 PM
#35
10-08-2015, 10:17 PM
So I had (I think) my first regen today. I saw the regen notice on my way to my son's hockey practice. Only 7 km to it so I knew I wouldn't finish it.
Side note: OK so majority of members here are in the US so I'll convert to good ol' miles... stupid metric system... hate it, still have no idea how much I weigh in kg's, and I can picture a pound, kg not so much.
So truck had 447 miles and it starts the regen with about 2.5 miles to the arena. Shut it off. Also, both the wife and I noticed a slight smell of burnt rubber when we got out. Drive home from arena, approx 4.5 miles, no regen. No increase in fuel mileage on the way home.
So I take it out after dropping wife and kid off at home. Drive about 5 miles before regen kicks in again. Now, not sure if anyone else notices, when the regen kicks in, it feels almost like a gear shift. Kind of like a downshift, bit of hesitation, but no hill and like a little bit of power suddenly got zapped for a second.
Now this is the part I don't like. I was watching the dash like a hawk and did not see the message that the regen had restarted. (and it seemed like it took a long time for it to restart. approximately, 7 miles to restart) Why Ford do you not tell us it has restarted? Only way I noticed was the "lag" and then the decrease in fuel economy.
So I have 13 miles of uninterrupted highway from my place to the next town, about 15-20 minutes if I putt it at 55mph. I get close to town and turn around start heading home, regen still active (I was worried that it might shut off the regen if I went under a certain speed) but I didn't have to stop the truck and got back on the hwy. The regen continued, as guestimated by the instant fuel economy still very low.
On the drive home, still watching the dash for indicators, nothing. Around mile 25 since starting out I see the fuel economy jump back to normal, nothing on the dash saying regen complete or anything like that. Again, why Ford, do you not tell us its complete? Had another 2 miles or so home, let her cool down a bit and shut her down.
I have smelled the burnt rubber smell before, think around 270 miles, backing into the driveway, but wasn't sure if it was in regen or not. Seemed a little early, and I didn't really know what to look for when its doing it, and didn't see the dash warning saying its going into regen. Seems to me Ford should have a constant display (maybe an Icon or something) so if you have the time to drive and complete the regen you can decide to do it or not, and tell us when it starts and finishes.
So, that's my "first?" noticed regen experience. And because of that, I will be seeing the dealer soon to add the exhaust filter percentage to the display screen, and as soon as Edge updates their software for the 16's I'll be adding the Insight CTS2.
Call me crazy but if my truck is doing something, apparently pretty important to the way the exhaust works (I would delete, but we have the environment bible thumpers here and have to get emission tests) Ford should at least let us know what its doing, when it starts and ends. Until then, I guess its aftermarket I go.
Side note: OK so majority of members here are in the US so I'll convert to good ol' miles... stupid metric system... hate it, still have no idea how much I weigh in kg's, and I can picture a pound, kg not so much.
So truck had 447 miles and it starts the regen with about 2.5 miles to the arena. Shut it off. Also, both the wife and I noticed a slight smell of burnt rubber when we got out. Drive home from arena, approx 4.5 miles, no regen. No increase in fuel mileage on the way home.
So I take it out after dropping wife and kid off at home. Drive about 5 miles before regen kicks in again. Now, not sure if anyone else notices, when the regen kicks in, it feels almost like a gear shift. Kind of like a downshift, bit of hesitation, but no hill and like a little bit of power suddenly got zapped for a second.
Now this is the part I don't like. I was watching the dash like a hawk and did not see the message that the regen had restarted. (and it seemed like it took a long time for it to restart. approximately, 7 miles to restart) Why Ford do you not tell us it has restarted? Only way I noticed was the "lag" and then the decrease in fuel economy.
So I have 13 miles of uninterrupted highway from my place to the next town, about 15-20 minutes if I putt it at 55mph. I get close to town and turn around start heading home, regen still active (I was worried that it might shut off the regen if I went under a certain speed) but I didn't have to stop the truck and got back on the hwy. The regen continued, as guestimated by the instant fuel economy still very low.
On the drive home, still watching the dash for indicators, nothing. Around mile 25 since starting out I see the fuel economy jump back to normal, nothing on the dash saying regen complete or anything like that. Again, why Ford, do you not tell us its complete? Had another 2 miles or so home, let her cool down a bit and shut her down.
I have smelled the burnt rubber smell before, think around 270 miles, backing into the driveway, but wasn't sure if it was in regen or not. Seemed a little early, and I didn't really know what to look for when its doing it, and didn't see the dash warning saying its going into regen. Seems to me Ford should have a constant display (maybe an Icon or something) so if you have the time to drive and complete the regen you can decide to do it or not, and tell us when it starts and finishes.
So, that's my "first?" noticed regen experience. And because of that, I will be seeing the dealer soon to add the exhaust filter percentage to the display screen, and as soon as Edge updates their software for the 16's I'll be adding the Insight CTS2.
Call me crazy but if my truck is doing something, apparently pretty important to the way the exhaust works (I would delete, but we have the environment bible thumpers here and have to get emission tests) Ford should at least let us know what its doing, when it starts and ends. Until then, I guess its aftermarket I go.
#36
10-10-2015, 06:51 AM
Elder User
The fact is, if you drop below 4 MPH or place the transmission in Park or Neutral an active regeneration event will be terminated as you all have discovered. What is happening at that point the heat that is still in the catalysts will continue to bun off the soot as the engine sits at idle and slowly coolf off. I submit that raising the idle will actually cause the catalysts to cool off quicker than if you simply let it idle. This is something I have noticed in the shop during testing. Perhaps, since you all seem to be glued to your monitors we could determine if this holds true during a normal regen and cool down event which is something I never get to witness with my equipment installed. So, instead of turning on your high idle, just let it sit and see what, if any difference it makes. I would be interested in knowing this.
When I perform manual regenerations and they complete I can also monitor the soot level and EGT's during cool down and as you discovered it (soot level) does indeed continue to drop as the engine idles. This is where I see elevating the RPMs increase the rate of cooling of the catalyst. Keep in mind though that most of my manual regenerations follow repairs where the DPF is very loaded and clogged and the event produces some serious heat. An active regeneration event in your cases is not nearly as severe.
Good topic!
When I perform manual regenerations and they complete I can also monitor the soot level and EGT's during cool down and as you discovered it (soot level) does indeed continue to drop as the engine idles. This is where I see elevating the RPMs increase the rate of cooling of the catalyst. Keep in mind though that most of my manual regenerations follow repairs where the DPF is very loaded and clogged and the event produces some serious heat. An active regeneration event in your cases is not nearly as severe.
Good topic!
#37
10-10-2015, 08:42 AM
The fact is, if you drop below 4 MPH or place the transmission in Park or Neutral an active regeneration event will be terminated as you all have discovered. What is happening at that point the heat that is still in the catalysts will continue to bun off the soot as the engine sits at idle and slowly coolf off. I submit that raising the idle will actually cause the catalysts to cool off quicker than if you simply let it idle. This is something I have noticed in the shop during testing. Perhaps, since you all seem to be glued to your monitors we could determine if this holds true during a normal regen and cool down event which is something I never get to witness with my equipment installed. So, instead of turning on your high idle, just let it sit and see what, if any difference it makes. I would be interested in knowing this.
When I perform manual regenerations and they complete I can also monitor the soot level and EGT's during cool down and as you discovered it (soot level) does indeed continue to drop as the engine idles. This is where I see elevating the RPMs increase the rate of cooling of the catalyst. Keep in mind though that most of my manual regenerations follow repairs where the DPF is very loaded and clogged and the event produces some serious heat. An active regeneration event in your cases is not nearly as severe.
Good topic!
When I perform manual regenerations and they complete I can also monitor the soot level and EGT's during cool down and as you discovered it (soot level) does indeed continue to drop as the engine idles. This is where I see elevating the RPMs increase the rate of cooling of the catalyst. Keep in mind though that most of my manual regenerations follow repairs where the DPF is very loaded and clogged and the event produces some serious heat. An active regeneration event in your cases is not nearly as severe.
Good topic!
The time in the mall parking lot it stopped below 1gpl, lower than normal and another 10gpl with elevated rpm, until egt temps got to about 500f. It seems to me lower temp regens are more effective and take less time/energy to complete than when I go through a regen hauling with egt1 temp above 750f+ and the other 3 above 1100f.
I've done a couple of manual regen and they work great, taking soot levels below 1gpl both times, relatively quick. Egt1 temp stays below 650f on manual. don't know the other egt's because it goes to a screen that does not include them. The truck I have now has only experienced 2 mild jackhammers, but several episodes where it starts to miss/buck like the transmission is going back and forth like it is trying to find a gear. The egt's are always 750-800f when that happens. I have not had any sign of an episode for many regens since it has cooled down now and I always drop to 5th gear. So to me this problem is temperature sensitive.
#38
10-10-2015, 08:55 AM
I wish the cts2 had tire psi monitors. so you don't monitor soot gpl? For me the dpf load % is useless in counting down to a regen. After 100% it stops, won't go above that even though 2.75gpl seems to be 100% dpf load, and my regens alway start at 3.45gpl. I remember the app on my phone would keep counting above 100% dpf load, regens started at 138%, but the cts just won't go above 100%.
#39
10-10-2015, 09:05 AM
I enjoyed this thread. Love that TorquePro dashboard.
I don't worry about regens anymore for the most part. I used to get concerned when I took a lot of short trips where the regen process starts and doesn't finish as I don't want to see the dreaded drive to clean message. And even with those worries, I have not seen that message yet as I always seem to end up doing along highway drive which allows the active regen to complete. Therefore, my 'anxiety' level is now pretty low. I do hate the low MPG I get once I get stuck in that loop though. That is the only reason I wish I had a manual regen button... But then again, I haven't really "needed" it.
I don't worry about regens anymore for the most part. I used to get concerned when I took a lot of short trips where the regen process starts and doesn't finish as I don't want to see the dreaded drive to clean message. And even with those worries, I have not seen that message yet as I always seem to end up doing along highway drive which allows the active regen to complete. Therefore, my 'anxiety' level is now pretty low. I do hate the low MPG I get once I get stuck in that loop though. That is the only reason I wish I had a manual regen button... But then again, I haven't really "needed" it.
#40
10-10-2015, 08:14 PM
we are glued to the monitors because it is effective in avoiding a rejackerartion, that some still see as a boogie man and ford can't explain or fix. I have sat in a mall parking lot in drive holding the brake during almost all of the duration of a regen. It started right when I got there and lasted about 15 min. The truck temps were cool with egt1 staying under 650f. The other 3 at about 1000f, so it was a low temp regen. I have noticed that if I'm driving through a regen, with normal high temps and stop for too long it will dump out of regen before it gets to the normal kick off point of about 1.2gpl.
The time in the mall parking lot it stopped below 1gpl, lower than normal and another 10gpl with elevated rpm, until egt temps got to about 500f. It seems to me lower temp regens are more effective and take less time/energy to complete than when I go through a regen hauling with egt1 temp above 750f+ and the other 3 above 1100f.
I've done a couple of manual regen and they work great, taking soot levels below 1gpl both times, relatively quick. Egt1 temp stays below 650f on manual. don't know the other egt's because it goes to a screen that does not include them. The truck I have now has only experienced 2 mild jackhammers, but several episodes where it starts to miss/buck like the transmission is going back and forth like it is trying to find a gear. The egt's are always 750-800f when that happens. I have not had any sign of an episode for many regens since it has cooled down now and I always drop to 5th gear. So to me this problem is temperature sensitive.
The time in the mall parking lot it stopped below 1gpl, lower than normal and another 10gpl with elevated rpm, until egt temps got to about 500f. It seems to me lower temp regens are more effective and take less time/energy to complete than when I go through a regen hauling with egt1 temp above 750f+ and the other 3 above 1100f.
I've done a couple of manual regen and they work great, taking soot levels below 1gpl both times, relatively quick. Egt1 temp stays below 650f on manual. don't know the other egt's because it goes to a screen that does not include them. The truck I have now has only experienced 2 mild jackhammers, but several episodes where it starts to miss/buck like the transmission is going back and forth like it is trying to find a gear. The egt's are always 750-800f when that happens. I have not had any sign of an episode for many regens since it has cooled down now and I always drop to 5th gear. So to me this problem is temperature sensitive.
#41
10-12-2015, 01:08 PM
#42
10-12-2015, 02:35 PM
#43
12-13-2015, 08:23 PM
The truck is a 2013 f350 6.7L DRW 4x4
Ive been going back and forth on purchasing and Edge insight CTS2 or going the Torque App route for a Christmas gift for my wife. I was wondering if you all can answer a few questions for me regarding the two different products.
Torque app:
First off, I would plan on buying the best or recommended OBDII reader, and running a dedicated smart phone or tablet just for the truck monitoring. This device would remain in the truck.
Can this App monitor tire pressure?
When you start the truck, how easy is it to load up this app?
Will it keep the PID's you prefer to monitor, or would you have to reconfigure/reload the screen each and every time?
How easy is it to load the PID's?(I'm assuming you have to upload or somehow hand type in some equations from what I've been reading).
Can this app do anything the Edge insight can't?
Cost aside, which app would you go with and Why?
Do I need to add any sensors on the truck for this app to monitor?
Some of the torque app photos and videos I've seen look too great not to consider it.
Edge Insight CTS/2
I'm leaning toward this device for the sol fact that it seems to be turn key/plug and play, and possibly a bit easier to use.
Will this device Power on and off with the truck, or do you have to shut it down?
Will this monitor the trucks tire pressure? (From what Ive read it doesn't)
What can the Edge do monitoring wise only that the Torque App cant?
If you have some time, let me know what you think. Thanks!
Ive been going back and forth on purchasing and Edge insight CTS2 or going the Torque App route for a Christmas gift for my wife. I was wondering if you all can answer a few questions for me regarding the two different products.
Torque app:
First off, I would plan on buying the best or recommended OBDII reader, and running a dedicated smart phone or tablet just for the truck monitoring. This device would remain in the truck.
Can this App monitor tire pressure?
When you start the truck, how easy is it to load up this app?
Will it keep the PID's you prefer to monitor, or would you have to reconfigure/reload the screen each and every time?
How easy is it to load the PID's?(I'm assuming you have to upload or somehow hand type in some equations from what I've been reading).
Can this app do anything the Edge insight can't?
Cost aside, which app would you go with and Why?
Do I need to add any sensors on the truck for this app to monitor?
Some of the torque app photos and videos I've seen look too great not to consider it.
Edge Insight CTS/2
I'm leaning toward this device for the sol fact that it seems to be turn key/plug and play, and possibly a bit easier to use.
Will this device Power on and off with the truck, or do you have to shut it down?
Will this monitor the trucks tire pressure? (From what Ive read it doesn't)
What can the Edge do monitoring wise only that the Torque App cant?
If you have some time, let me know what you think. Thanks!
#44
12-14-2015, 02:33 AM
That's good to know. I might try that myself. Last week a regen caught me on the way home so I passed up my driveway and thought I'd make a quick run out a state highway to let if finish. In my haste I failed to slow down enough for a construction area. Yep, cost me $562.00 for doing 39 in a 25. 
#45
12-14-2015, 07:13 AM
My state doesn't allow suction cups on the windshield so I tried a Garmin friction mount and it works great. The CTS and Garmin sit side by side in the center dash tray, and I still have room for the TPMS monitor for my fifth wheel trailer.
Garmin Friction Mount - Walmart.com
BTW, no one has mentioned that the CTS has a manual regen feature. It is a $250 option on some Ford models, but I didn't get it as I knew I would be getting the CTS.
Garmin Friction Mount - Walmart.com
BTW, no one has mentioned that the CTS has a manual regen feature. It is a $250 option on some Ford models, but I didn't get it as I knew I would be getting the CTS.