Will the upcoming UAL talks forstall the release of the new F-150 trucks? Not for a while anyway. Talks are do to start in earnest late August. Watch for the closing of at least 10 U.S. plants and the "exposing" of at leasty 25,000 UAL members.

 

The American Dream started going away in the early '80s. Momentum carried it for awhile, but the past ten years have proven our costs of manufacturing, primarily attributable to labor rates and OSHA compliance, to be non-competitive in what has become a world market.

China is in the position the US capitalized on for almost 100 years; cheap labor, virtually unlimited natural resources, full government support for industry and selective secondary education. Investors are throwing investment capital at China, expected to become the world power in this century. Several months ago Ford announced they were in the process of sourcing a 'major' portion of sub-assembly components from China. To me, that would be everything they can save money on.

We got fat and lazy.

 

UAW's full of fat lazy a-holes!

 

NRAJOE

Thats right

 

So NRAJOE, If everyone in the UAW were "fat lazy a-holes" why is it you can drive a auto, get nurses to tend to you in hospitals, buy stant radiator caps, gas caps, use trico/stant wiper blades, have bendix brakes on cars out on the street, use champion plugs, and so many other products and services. I would like you to know it's not just us who are supposedly fat and lazy go out and look at any business they all have there fair share ,union or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I do take this personally I bust my *** everyday making sure the dies which stamp out many auto parts can stay running(Expedition ,navigator,focus,escape,excursion &jaguar). I can also say I work on stamping dies weighing Appox. Average,64,000Lbs. I weigh 125Lbs. Guess I must be fat gotta go on a diet.
Proud Fat Lazy A-Hole UAW Member
Kevin Porter Local 900 Wayne, Mi
Check out WWW.UAW.org click on uaw made link, how many do you have?

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/products/webuy1.html

 

I'm not saying anyone is lazy fom a viewpoint of work ethics, what happened was a combination of little or no competition for many, many years. Management was as much to blame as the unions for letting wages and benefits escalate out of control. In the automobile industry it was just as easy to say OK, let them have the raises, we'll just increase the product price to the consumer. When world competition did arrive, US manufacturers were unable to cut costs due to contractual obligations with labor unions and their own internal mindsets, so they started closing plants and continue to do so. To compete with lower cost imports, they also dropped quality control levels to offset higher labor costs and all of a sudden people were buying more imports than domestic cars.

The problem is in every indusrty. European and Asian engineers in all disiplines make about a third of what their US counterparts demand. With the Internet, any business can have their engineering done in India, Russia, Ireland, etc., and the trend is to do just that.

US machinery manufacturers, the ones who are surviving, have all gone off-shore for engineering and production. For the US market, they do some final assembly here to get the 'Made in the USA' sticker purely as a marketing tool.

 

Hey Porter, don't sweat it. They have no clue as to how a plant such as ISA operates.



A fellow apprentice.

 

I worked 15 yrs in the Toledo Jeep Plant...nothing but lazy drunken, dope smoking,whiney punks...well 70% of them! The higher the seniority the less ya got out of them! I have friends who work at Ford in Maumee, Oh. and the Perrysburg stamping plant for Chrysler...they all have the same problems. Why do you think the Japs dominate the auto industry? I also have two friends who work at the Flatrock Mazda plant...they don't take anycrap there! The job gets done and no whineing!!!

 

But say one word against a union to a union member and they act like you're un-American.

The import manufacturers took a long look at this country before building assembly plants here. Then they chose locations where $8-12/hr jobs for bolting on fenders are considered prizes.

US manufacturers closing plants and opening new plants in rural areas always offer the union members a transfer, at the new wages, but few accept. They'd rather complain about how they're being mistreated, go on unemployment, then really complain when jobs paying their former wage are no longer available in any industry.

The free ride is about over.

 

This thread has major explosion potential written all over it. It's union vs non-union all over again. IMHO unions were a good thing years ago. My grandfather slaved away at Saginaw Grey iron and unions helped his way of life without a doubt. But speaking as a Tier one supplier trying to get something done in a UAW plant I can't help but wonder if thier time is up. When I have to wait 45 minutes for a "electrician" to plug my welder in I get a little upset. I don't mean hardwire a system into location complete with lockouts and all the trimmings. Just to plug a welder in so I can verify it's operation. Same with an Air fitting. When I ask why I couldn't do it myself I get a lecture about "stealing" someone's job. BS! I do see harworking union boys out there when I am in a plant, but I also see the non-working lazy, drunk (there's a good idea, drunken die stamping, perfect darwin situation) workers there too. Clean them up (yeah right) and the unions may become a good thing again.

(climbs off soapbox)

 

I agree that the Union has outlived its usefullness. I am fortunate to live in a "right to work" state. When I drove a truck, I had a lot of dealings with "union" plants. Loading and unloading times were drastically longer than at non-union plants. The union worker will do no more than he/she has to to keep their job. If a union worker sees something needs to be done, they often cant due to Union restrictions. I personally beleive the reason vehicles are so expensive is due to the Union's stranglehold on businesses. At a local Goodyear Tire Manufacturing plant here, the company said they would have to close unless the local governments helped pay for updating the plant. The cities came up with the money required to keep a major employer in the area. The first thing the union did after that was go on strike for higher wages. The steel plant in the same area finally shut its doors for good because the union was unwilling to take some pay and benefit cuts to keep it operating. A lot of the workers were willing to make less to keep their job, but the union wouldnt allow it. The union tried to get in to the Advance Auto Parts distribution center, but was turned down by a vote of the workers. I think that most of the unions leaders are corrupt and that the only reason workers pay dues is to support theri lifestyles. When a union goes on strike, do the union leaders still get a paycheck?...You bet they do!!
I do not beleive in the Union, However, I do respect those who belong to one. I personally try to not cross their picket lines, if possible, but I wont support their arguement for higher wages etc...

 

I can't believe what I'm reading here. I am a proud U.A.W. member and have been for 30 year's. Who do you think build's the truck's that this board is about?
It was made a fact that in 1959 50% of a vehicle's cost was labor, in 1989 only 15% was labor. and in 1999 it was only 11.5%, do you see a trend here?
Yes U.A.W. member's enjoy good pay and benifit's, but I guarantee you that they earn every penny.
How many of you complainer's have had to sort, select, and assemble as many as 14 part's per-truck, 68 truck's pre-hour? And the line doesn't stop for any reason except for breakage which is rare.
Garry Goodlet
Inspector
Government Regulation's Auditor
Ford Motor Company
Kentucky Truck Plant

 

When Americans were buying only US vehicles, supply and demand economics were confined to the immediate marketplace, this country. There was no competition other than domestic manufacturers seeking additional market share. GM actually backed off in the '60s before they were investigated for monopolizing the car/truck markets.

We're now in a world economy. It doesn't matter how hard it is to pick, sort and assemble 14 different parts on a moving assembly line, world supply and demand determine finished product pricing and the question becomes what is that job worth in the world market to keep that assembly line profitable. And I can guarantee it isn't anything near what an American union member makes. That's why quality dropped on domestic cars, to offset labor costs. That's why US overall product quality, and jobs, have been disappearing at a fast clip.

This isn't a union/non-union situation or argument, the problem exists in virtually every American industry. Our standard of living reached a point where our labor costs to maintain those standards, regardless of the job, have removed us as a competitor in virtually all forms of manufacturing. We now live in a service economy.

Why do you think the government can't stem the tide of illegal immigrants from South American? $5/hr and enough to eat sounds like heaven to those who have marginal subsistence level standards of living. Think about the standard of living in China and other countries who are becoming manufacturing powers in the world economy; compare what you do for a living, how much you make and and hack 75% off. Then we might be competitive in the world market. And don't forget the fact that most of us are descendents of immigrants, who came to this country because they were half-starved in their countries of origin. History does repeat itself.

For those who say they don't care about other countries, only the US, get real. Those days are gone forever. Whether we like it or not, most consumer products are now manufactured in other countries. Until economics force a majority of Americans to adopt a lower standard of living, which would still be much higher than most of the world, it'll get a lot worse before it gets better. When a work force is shown the books and the company can't make a profit with their current wage structure, why would the employees vote to cut their own throats by forcing the company to close and move operations off-shore? Because they watch network TV, believe things will improve and feel they can always find another job. Good luck to those dreamers. The only growth industries in the US are prepared food and government.

 

big1,
Well said !!!!!!!!!


Lectrocuted,
Where do you work?


Kevin
UAW Local 900

 

The trend is that more and more is being outsourced, therefore the labor costs are hidden. If you buy a part, partially made (by an outsourced company) and assemble it with 10% labor and the other 90% is outsourced, you can claim lower labor when it fact its not.

I hate saying this, but I was not impressed by my tour of the Michigan truck plant. The group I was touring with noticed the number of shaved heads and mullets more than the work being accomplished (one guy was able to read a magazine between each truck). We joked about the blatant slacking off, in front of visitors with no apparent shame. In fact it wasn't funny ---- just sad.

I'm all for the American auto worker. But those who stick up for the slackers are just as guilty. If you ignore a problem, you're part of it. If someone can't see what the Japanese and Germans have done to the US auto industry in the last 30 years they are in deep denial of reality.

You may think differently because everywhere you drive in Detroit (or any other factory area) you see 99% American cars. Take a look elsewere in the country and you'll find Japanese cars everywhere and many people won't consider driving an American vehicle. That didn't happen by accident.

I drive only Fords and I own 4 of them.... but that doesn't mean I need to BS myself about what's going on in the world. If they (management and labor) don't make the changes you'll find the US auto industry in the same position the US TV industry is in: <i>gone</i>.