White Lightning packs a mighty punch ! LOL

 

Yep, it's good stuff and we can get it locally. They don't make that stuff out, there do they? They only have the smokables, snortables and shootables out there on the left coast, I thought. And wine, lots of wine, but wine don't burn so good. You do have world class vineyards out there.

 

It ranges out about 100 miles between stations. Planning ones trip, or just fill with gas. My FlexFuel doesn't care. About 1 in 10 time they are out anyway.

 

After doing some research and learning that it can cost $12K to have a shop convert you to CNG, I just might get into installing the conversion kits for a living. The tank and kit run like $2K to $2.5K and the rest would be a whole lot of profit.

 

The cost to have a shop do the conversion is outrageous.
The big bites seem to be the tank and the refueling system or pump that is needed to fill the tank/bottle and pressurize it at about 3200 to 3600 PSI. I spoke with a Rep from CNGNOW and he told me that the home filling station would run from $4,000.00 to $6,000.00 installed!
I told him that i read that there were systems that I read about that was supposed to cost around $500.00 and could be installed by a competent HVAC mechanic. He told me that those systems were Federally funded projects in or near the prototype stage right now and years from production.
I just don't undersgtand this stuff! Like what is so hard to do in comptressing natural gas? Welding supply companies compress acetylene gas to pretty high pressures. When I was a kid my dad was a coal miner and he had some old carbide lamps that the miners used to use that we used when fishing , running the trot line. They used carbide rocks and water, both cheap and plentiful. Just add water to the carbide rocks and they will give off gas that is acetylene. So my question to the CNCNOW Rep was; why can't the same technology be used for CNG? I never got an answer.
At this point I am seriously considering LPG as a fuel if I can buy it in enough places at prices better than gasoline.
There has to be a way around the monopolies and the government.

 

If you find a way to make a profit the manufacturers, insurance companies, state, local and federal government will find a way to suck the life and profit out of it with regulations, licences, requirements, fees and taxes. When you figure it all up and by some miracle find a way to make a profit the government will find a way to take that too.
Just remember "You didn't build that!" no matter what you invest/risk, you didn't build that, the government did.

 

Based on what I've read, the problem is that CNG is only about 0.5 PSI as it enters the home. It is also federally unlawful to store a tank of compressed CNG at a residential filling station. That means you have to connect the filling station directly to the vehicle and not to a storage tank. Now here is the big downside...it takes about 22 hours to fill most automotive CNG tanks from empty this way. This amount of CNG will yield the equivalent of about 12 gallons of gasoline. Of course if you only go through 1/2 to 3/4 a tank per day, then the vehicle can be filled up overnight or in about 11-16 hours.

 

It is hard on the pump to get CNG from Home PSI to the 3600PSI range of compression. You end up with a lot of costs if you do a lot of compression. Years ago Propane wasn't taxed so it was a cost effective auto fuel MOD. It does take chrome rings and stelite valves with hardened seats. Also the spark plug gap tightens up for good starts in cold weather. A flex fuel rig would be a better long term investment for sale ability. Simply put gasoline wins, Hybrid comes in second all else perty much finishes last. Even diesel is gettin so cumbersomly burdened in the exhaust systems technology it's gett- N put out of sight cost wise for the average home.

 

I converted my Raptor to bi-fuel with cng last summer. I bought a filling station and a kit, did the install myself. The filling station was $7400 with the dryer, the kit was around $800, and the tank(used) was around $500. I spent around $6k for gas the first year I had the truck. So, it will take around 2 years to break even. Also, the tanks have a dot certification with an expiration date. The further out the expiration date, the higher the price. That's another price factor added in. I have seen new tanks 13.5 GGe with a 20 year expiration for $1000. That's about the cheapest I have seen. They're usually around $1600. There isn't a filling station within 60 miles of my house, so all my filling is done at home. I drive about 60 miles round trip to work and back. I have a 10 GGe (gas gallon equivalent) tank in the box. My filling station fills about 1 gallon per hour average. I have the software setup to start on gasoline then switch over once the tach goes over 2000rpm. You can also set a what temp the motor is at before it switches over, to eliminate cold weather problems. I snowmobile a lot near Lake Ontario. As far as performance, there is about a 10% loss in power on cng. You don't notice it in daily driving, but if you floor it on an on ramp to the highway, you'll notice the difference. I was getting a check engine light, the error was "open injector circuit", which is understandable because when it switches to cng, it removes the common ground from the injectors to stop the gas flow. I have a sct tuner for the truck, and was running a 93 octane tune. I called the guy who made the tune for my truck and explained what i was seeing. He was able to modify his tune to ignore those error codes. I loaded that tune, no more check engine light. It's a big investment for sure. Even bigger if you pay someone to do it. I looked into getting certified. I found a class, that takes a week, and costs $1600. I'm thinking about taking it in the spring. Mostly because things in the middle east look they're going to get a lot worse before they better. I remember gas rationing in the 70's. Plus I always giggle a little when I drive by a gas station and see 93 octane go over 4 bucks a gallon. I keep around a 1\4 tank of gas in the truck in case I run out of cng. There are regulations on this. Look up NFPA_52_2010 Vehicular Gaseous Fuel Systems. A lot of that reg has to do with commercial filling stations, I think around chapter 6 it gets into vehicle systems and chapter 10 gets into home fueling stations. Follow that reg and you should be ok. We don't have emission testing (exhaust sniffing) where I live. I know in California they want an EPA certified kit. No matter how clean your exhaust is, they consider it tampering with emissions.
Hope this help anyone thinking about doing a conversion

 

Thanks for the info. I'd also be interested to read the breakdown of your fuel costs pre vs. post conversion. Things like how much in CGN vs. gasoline it costs you to drive per mile, etc.

 

I didn't do an exact measurement on what my price per mile was. I just looked over my credit card statements for the last year, and was averaging about $500 per month. The few months I drove it with the conversion I've averaged about $145 per month. I'm in Afghanistan now and my girlfriend has been driving the truck to work. Her drive is only about 5 miles each way, so it's hard to compare since she has been driving it. From what I've seen, with a full tank @3600psi, I'm getting around 10 mpg in town and about 14mpg on the highway. On 93 octane I get around 11 or 12 in town and 14 or 15 on the highway. So, it's about a 10% loss in mileage. I'm going to convert the girlfriends 06 Explorer Limited when I get back home after the new year.
She doesn't really like driving the truck to work because the parking lot is pretty small, and that truck is pretty wide, but because of the money she saves, she will deal with the parking.

 

Attakgt,

Any regs for the home compressor? (building codes)

What kind of amps - electric on same?

Is it similar to a home a/c unit?

Thanks, john

 

The fuelmaker is just like any gas appliance. Black pipe to the unit. There's also a vent to release the hose pressure, before you disconnect it from the vehicle. You have to have a quick electrical disconnect at least 5 feet from the unit. A gas sensor near the ceiling if it's located indoors, to shut the unit off if it senses a leak.
The spec states it draws 7amps @240 volts
I have a BRC Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36
Google it, you can find a pdf on it.
Also look up NFPA_52_2010, that's the regulation document. I mentioned above what chapters to look in.

 

Ouch, that's about $4.25 in electricity costs to fill your 10 gallon tank.

 

How much do you pay for electricity???
My electric bill for for the last month I was home was $65. I think I used about 360kwh? I don't have the bill in front of me but I know it was $65. My fueling station is at my garage which is separate from my house, and on it's own meter. I also have a soft side pool behind my garage with a little pump on it that runs 8 hours a day on a timer and a dorm room refrigerator. Besides the lights when I'm in the garage, there's nothing else on that meter.