I used Loctite 620 on the bottom mating surface, and on the top mating surface. I used the Loctite-brand ODC cleaner (that Loctite recommended for that specific sealant) to clean both the cups and the bore.

Even though Loctite recommended the cleaner, I have a slight concern over it. It felt kinda greasy. But, I cleaned the cups and bores thoroughly and wiped off any liquid residue. I think if I had it to do over again I would have used brake cleaner.

Regarding the pressure test, I used very low pressure, trying to simulate the coolant pressure. It was probably less than 10 psi; basically just ballooned up the inner tubes I was using, so as to generate a little positive pressure.

Looks like the other 6 cylinders held, although now this has me wondering how good they are.

 

As far as the pressure test goes - you could try to re-seat the cups in question.
Also, with the system already drained, it might be a good time to add a coolant bypass filter.

 

I don't have any doubt that the cups are seated. I don't think I could re-seat them without applying new Loctite, and there's no way to get the cups out without damaging them beyond use.

I called Loctite this morning and talked to their tech support about this. I told them how I used their ODC-Free cleaner. They said the stuff had to be re-formulated recently to meet California standards, and that it can leave a residue behind. To me, the stuff felt too greasy to be a good cleaning solvent, but I wiped it off really well after the cleaning. It's one of the solvents they recommended, I thought I was doing the right thing. I'm kinda wishing I would have just used acetone.

Now I am faced with the dilemma, do I just replace the two cups that I know are leaking, or do I R&R them all again? If the adhesive on these two is compromised, the rest must be also. Plus, it's really not a well-controlled test, I'm applying low pressure and looking for bubbles with soapy water, and we all know how hard it is to see down in some of these bores (the ones in back).

Thing is, it's just so much work to get to the point of pulling the sleeves, if they are questionable I'd rather do them over now.

I think that for starters, I am going to pull the two cups that I know are leaking, and see what the sealant looks like. If I decide to replace just those two, I can get cups from the dealer today, even though they want $18 apiece for them. If I decide to do them all, I'll get new ones from Riffraff.

Ugh....

 

Damn man,thats a bummer. Knock on wood, that i dont have to do cups anytime soon, but if i did, and expereinced "bubbles" afterward, i dont think i could sleep either bud. I'd think, bubbles excaping out, then fluid can pass thru, fill'n up the cylinders and/or fluid mixing...probably not want you wanted to hear. I hope i'm wrong though.

 

I think you're plan is a good one. I've used brake cleaner and a 'softer' wire brush in the past and had good results. If you think the cleaner has left a residue, it's better to start fresh again now - rather than a week from now, or month... or year.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions and support. Going back out to pull one or two cups.

 

Good grief. "We had to make our product worthless so CA would let us sell it". It's a shame that cost you time and money.

Mark

 

LOL Mark, yeah... I guess I have just gotten used to it, having lived in Fornicalia for 33 years now. Lots of great reasons to live here, but an astounding amount of stupidity, particularly in our legislature. And the scary part for everyone else is that Cali tends to "lead" the rest of the country on policy formation. So watch out, seriously.

OK anyway, back on-topic. I very carefully re-ran my pressure tests and re-confirmed the results; very slight leak on #4, more significant leak on #8. So obviously those would both need to come out.

The answer was pretty much immediately clear to me when I felt the ease with which #4 came out. I think it actually broke loose and spun a little bit when I engaged the removal tool. Definitely uncured sealant. This is after sitting for a full week, in 100+ temperatures.

Now, I know this stuff needs to be IN a gap to actually cure (anaerobic), so I wasn't super alarmed by the uncured sealant in the non-gap areas (e.g. in the coolant area). However, the sealant that was in the mating areas was kinda "sludgy". It did cure better in the gap at the bottom of the cup than it did in the gap at the top of the cup. Not sure what that might mean. Maybe I didn't get the solvent cleaned out of the injector bore well enough, and it ran down the bore and collected at the top of the cup.

Anyway, I made the decision to pull all of the cups and replace them. They came out "like butter", I got the driver's side done in literally about 20 minutes. So there's a silver lining. Despite all of this mess, I am surprisingly upbeat, because I am SO GLAD that I didn't just replace the two and go on faith. They almost certainly would have failed, and probably in short order. Doing it over now is a WHOLE lot easier than facing fuel in the coolant, and tearing it all down again.

I've already placed an order for new cups with Clay. The local stealership has them, but they want $18 apiece (geez, I don't need the gold-plated ones!)

I may have to drive across state lines and smuggle in some real solvent

Anyway, I'd really like to say thanks again to all of my FTE bretheren who have had my back on this, I appreciate all of the suggestions and support.

 

Funny you mention smuggling into CA... every year I visit my family in the SF bay area and I am always asked to bring brake kleen and light bulbs...

Where abouts are you in Kali? If you are on the way I could make a stop...

Richard

 

Thanks Richard. I as stretching it a little, I can still get my hands on MEK and acetone, and the last time I went to the auto parts store they still had brake kleen, and it didn't have pictures of whales and dolphins on the front... ...yet. Hopefully that's still the case. Now if I lived in the Bay Area, which seems to lead all of this madness, I might have to take you up on it.

Still though, I live in a county on the central coast that just made it illegal for stores to give out plastic bags, and mandates that they charge $0.10 for every paper bag they give out. Six-month jail sentence for non-compliance. I know the plastic bag problem needs to be solved, but that's not how you do it, IMHO.

 

I got the new cups from Clay, and I am getting ready to put them in. I still have a little bit of a concern. After cleaning out the bores, I notice there still seems to be a little bit of oil seeping in, particularly in the rear cylinders.

I have had the small plugs out (the ones under the valve covers) for a week, and at one point I had the plugs out on the tops of the heads, but I have never had all of the plugs out at the same time.

Am I missing a step, or is a little oil seepage something to be expected? My plan is to do a final clean on each bore (using acetone this time!) right before I put the cup in, and I will probably stuff a paper towel in on top of the cup to catch any seepage if there is any. But I am worried that I am overlooking something. Any thoughts?

 

Yep. I got pissed at Monterey, PG, and Carmel when they did that.

I didn't realize we had another fellow FTE'r here on the Central Coast. What part of Monterey County do you live?

Stewart

 

SLO County, actually. A-Town. Our ban goes into effect October 1st.

 

Oh, the faux central coast.

Was down in Pismo a few weeks ago and had a blast. Was my first time there and I'm hooked!

Stewart

 

Cups are in, did fuel bowl re-seal, HPOP re-seal, 50 cent mod (which is awesome), CCV re-route. Will be doing AIH delete this weekend also.

I primed the HPOP system and the fuel system, and to my amazement, the truck came alive within a minute. Some blue smoke for a while, a little rough running for the first five minutes or so. I let it run a good 45 minutes straight and then got in and drove it around.

All is good, no apparent leaks or other problems. I'm still running Simple Green and water, and I think I will change it out and run one more round of that tomorrow, then get some coolant in there. Going to go ELC.

I'm glad this job is done, or almost is. Very happy to have my truck back on the road.

I want to say THANK YOU to everyone who helped me out. It's great to know that there's a great group of people that have my back.