Brake bleeding screw up, need help
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Fox Island Washington
Brake bleeding screw up, need help
I used the Phoenix systems brake bleeder to "reverse" bleed my brakes on an 2006 F-350.
http://www.brakebleeder.com/bleeding-brakes/
I pushed brand new DOT 3 synthetic brake fluid thru all 4 corners emptying the reservoir often as it filled with the fresh fluid coming up from below. I stopped after all fluid was new and clear.
Theoretically, I should have no air in the system. (I did shut the bleeder before disengaging the fluid pump line)
I now have a completely dead pedal.
I do I best bring the pedal back? Pump and burp the bleeder Valves?
Before I start, I hoped someone here has already worked this thru and knows the answer.
http://www.brakebleeder.com/bleeding-brakes/
I pushed brand new DOT 3 synthetic brake fluid thru all 4 corners emptying the reservoir often as it filled with the fresh fluid coming up from below. I stopped after all fluid was new and clear.
Theoretically, I should have no air in the system. (I did shut the bleeder before disengaging the fluid pump line)
I now have a completely dead pedal.
I do I best bring the pedal back? Pump and burp the bleeder Valves?
Before I start, I hoped someone here has already worked this thru and knows the answer.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
So you pushed new fluid in from the bleeder to the reservoir? If you did I will tell you what happened. You pushed all the junk from the calipers, lines, ABS, etc. back up threw the system and into your master cylinder and ABS.
I have mentioned this many times before on this forum. When doing brakes the fluid should ALWAYS flow from reservoir to bleeder, not back the other way. When compressing calipers the bleeder should be opened and the fluid should come out the bleeder when compressing the pistons back into the calipers. All it takes is one little tiny chunk of rubber, rust, whatever to ruin a master cylinder/ABS unit.
In the link, that guy holding the unit, he is from some tv show, I have watched the show a couple times, HE is an idiot!
So, rule of thumb with brakes (write it down) fluid only goes one way, from reservoir to bleeders! You don't push poop back up threw your mouth do you?
I have mentioned this many times before on this forum. When doing brakes the fluid should ALWAYS flow from reservoir to bleeder, not back the other way. When compressing calipers the bleeder should be opened and the fluid should come out the bleeder when compressing the pistons back into the calipers. All it takes is one little tiny chunk of rubber, rust, whatever to ruin a master cylinder/ABS unit.
In the link, that guy holding the unit, he is from some tv show, I have watched the show a couple times, HE is an idiot!
So, rule of thumb with brakes (write it down) fluid only goes one way, from reservoir to bleeders! You don't push poop back up threw your mouth do you?
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
I saw the shows on TV also. I could never understand why people would advocate pushing cruddy brake fluid up through the entire system. I understand air want to rise in liquid but it is not really an issue if bled right.
I use the Motive Products power bleeder. All I do is put about 1 1/2-2 quarts of fluid in the bleeder, pump up to pressurize the system and crack the bleed screw at each caliper starting with the right rear caliper and working my way close to the master cylinder. Bleed until the fluid runs clear with no bubbles.
You don't need the Motive but I do it by myself so it is what I need. One of the best tools I ever bought.
I use the Motive Products power bleeder. All I do is put about 1 1/2-2 quarts of fluid in the bleeder, pump up to pressurize the system and crack the bleed screw at each caliper starting with the right rear caliper and working my way close to the master cylinder. Bleed until the fluid runs clear with no bubbles.
You don't need the Motive but I do it by myself so it is what I need. One of the best tools I ever bought.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Fox Island Washington
first, I actually used the bleeder to pull the cruddy fluid thru as I refilled the reservoir (used 3 quarts doing so). Then, when the fluid was clear, I did the reverse push to make sure all the air was out.
Obviously, it did not work as planned.
Obviously, it did not work as planned.
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Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
You can save yourself quite a bit of brake fluid by sucking as much of the old fluid out of the reservoir. Add new fluid to the reservoir slowly so it does not mix much with the dirty fluid on the bottom. Cuts down on the amount of dirty fluid and mixed new/dirty fluid you have to push through the system.
I think reversing the direction to bleed was a bad idea. You could try bleeding again pulling from the bleeder fitting but it may not solve your problem. You might have got some air in the valving for the ABS system. I never had to do it but if air or something is in the ABS valving it may need to be cycled. (with the proper code reader)
I think reversing the direction to bleed was a bad idea. You could try bleeding again pulling from the bleeder fitting but it may not solve your problem. You might have got some air in the valving for the ABS system. I never had to do it but if air or something is in the ABS valving it may need to be cycled. (with the proper code reader)
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Fox Island Washington
Thanks
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Fox Island Washington
Pulled new clean fluid thru all 4 corners under vacuum assist. Reservoir clean and full.
Pedal much better but not resolved all the way.
Best way to bleed with pedal pump? Depress, hold and burp the line or depress multiple times with bleed screw slightly open?
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Pedal much better but not resolved all the way.
Best way to bleed with pedal pump? Depress, hold and burp the line or depress multiple times with bleed screw slightly open?
.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
1. Open the bleed screw. Push the pedal down. HOLD THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR while the bleed screw is closed.
2. Repeat until all air is gone, or even until fresh fluid comes out the bleeder screw.
3. Move on to next wheel. Repeat process.
2. Repeat until all air is gone, or even until fresh fluid comes out the bleeder screw.
3. Move on to next wheel. Repeat process.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Pump peddle about 5 times.
Then hold (trying to push brake peddle to floor)
Have buddy open bleeder.
Close bleeder when stream starts to diminish.
repeat at least three times on each bleeder or until air bubbles stop coming.
Every vehicle has a certain sequence in which the bleeders should be bled. Like most hondas are opposite corners (do right rear then left front, then left rear and finally right front).
Then hold (trying to push brake peddle to floor)
Have buddy open bleeder.
Close bleeder when stream starts to diminish.
repeat at least three times on each bleeder or until air bubbles stop coming.
Every vehicle has a certain sequence in which the bleeders should be bled. Like most hondas are opposite corners (do right rear then left front, then left rear and finally right front).
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
From: Fox Island Washington
Bled as described above.
I did use the vacuum assist if for nothing else, to keep the fluid picked up.
Brakes work great. Truck stops as it did before.
As a side question, how would I know that the master cylinder was going out. Poor braking or immediate and complete failure? I never had one go out before.
I did use the vacuum assist if for nothing else, to keep the fluid picked up.
Brakes work great. Truck stops as it did before.
As a side question, how would I know that the master cylinder was going out. Poor braking or immediate and complete failure? I never had one go out before.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Most of the time when masters go out the peddle will start to go further and further to the floor, sometimes you will have an instant brake to the floor failure, other times you may have to pump the peddle to get brakes, etc.
Many different symptoms to a failing master but I have found most of the time (so long as there are no leaks) you will just start getting a weird brake peddle. The master is normally the last component you look at when fixing brakes. If a problem arises, you should start at the wheels and work your way back threw the system checking stuff. If everything else is good, no leaks, and after a few bleeding attempts then you can pretty safely diagnose a bad master.
Many different symptoms to a failing master but I have found most of the time (so long as there are no leaks) you will just start getting a weird brake peddle. The master is normally the last component you look at when fixing brakes. If a problem arises, you should start at the wheels and work your way back threw the system checking stuff. If everything else is good, no leaks, and after a few bleeding attempts then you can pretty safely diagnose a bad master.