i think you hit the nail on the head.

when the air is full of moisture, and the air is cold, and the turbos arent making boost, thus not heating the air, the intercooler is "supercooling" the intake air causing the moisture to drop out and condense at the bottom. where it pools harmlessly until there is enough air flow that the velocity of the air inside the intercooler can pick it up in (comparability) large droplets ... and the motor stumbles.

when you put air near saturation in a sealed container, then lower the temp, condensation is the result 100% of the time. cold air will hold less moisture than warm(er) air.

the vehicles that are not seeing the problem are seeing enough boost often enough that the heated air from the turbos can keep the intercoolers dry. long periods of moderate boost will naturally keep the insides dry. moisture goes from wet to dry, and cold air that has been warmed up is naturally drier.

the thing that gets me .....

if a relative idiot like me can get it .... WTF is wrong with the ford engineers who couldn't see this coming ... then can't seem to get it fixed?

FORD: integrate a drain in the intercooler! or switch to a water-air intercooler ... its a problem .. it is real ... people aren't making this stuff up ... FIX IT!

as i've said before, 300hrs on a dyno does not simulate 10years worth of driving.

 

The other problem is the 10/15% alcohol in the gas. When the fuel is injected the alcohol mixes with the water coming into the cylinder. This becomes dead due to the wrong percentage of water to ethyl alcohol. Ethyl will immediately come out of suspension in the gasoline, leaving the gasoline a much poorer grade maybe even below 75 octane rating. Thus a misfire and engine controls happening. Ethyl was the name for high grade gas years ago because ethyl alcohol was used then to give gas its higher octane rating. They the gas companies went to other blends due to ethyl alcohols want to mix at all percentages with water instead of staying with the cheap gas blends. The design of the motor fuel system is to go to stoich fuel/air combinations a great deal of the time/thus the imbalance of fuel ratio is easier to come to with the introduction of water from the IC happening.
Easily said, the alcohol mixing with the water from the IC during the multi fuel injection events, creates a lean condition and misfires.
"Buying non alcohol based octane fuels would probably be a plus for the F150 EB overall perfoamance due alcohols desire to remix with H2O leaving the gas to a much lower octane.
Getting the water out of ethyl alcohol is the most expensive thing about the fuel during production.
Diesels can actually use water/alcohol mix at the proper % for more power, but the compression creates the heat to do it.
It may be that the people not having the problem are burning pure gas in their states still. It won't come out of solution with water injested from the IC. A misfire can still happen, just not as easily due to the gas fuel remaining at octane.
While Ford has addressed fuel quality issues with several TSB reflashes for Rousch equipped F150's in various parts of the country, the new EB's should adjust for it now I would think.

 

Can you explain to me how an air to air intercooler "supecools" the incoming air below ambient?

 

The issue as I see it is that the air in the intercooler is at a higher pressure which causes the moisture to come out of suspention at a lower temeperature. The better the intercooler design the more problems you will have with liquids in the cooler.I would have to do some research to find the PV diagrams to prove it, but it is a basic fluids problem.

 

The dealer is installing a new intercooler in my 2012 F150 tomorrow. The service guy told me it was a new redisgned intercooler and it should solve the water issue. I sure hope so, the deflector didn't work.

 

Can you show us pictures of it when it is in? Just put em on your album and lead us there with the copy of the http in the thread. New Edge advertises the shutters in front of it's IC. But that is basically a car. LOL Still I wonder, would 91 octane non ethanol be a better fuel for the EB ?

 

As i'm sure you learned in thermodynamics, it is an exothermic reaction for water to condense. Considering that the only place for the heat to go is the air inside the cooler, I doubt very much that it is going below ambient. I only used the word "supercool" to illustrate how efficiently the charge cooler is working in such an instance.

if you're going to be a smart a$$ to try and make a point, you had better bring your A-game. to answer your question even more directly than above: look it up for yourself.
Daltons Law of Partial Pressures in Moist Air

 

Yes I will. Good thought on the 91, I've wondered that as well while it's been in the shop for the last week...The funny thing is one reason I bought this truck is because how they sold me on the mpg. They have provided me with a F150 supercrew 4x4 as a loaner with a V8 and it's got anywhere from 16.5 -20.5 since last Wednesday when I started driving it. My truck has never done any better.

 

I've had an interesting scenario. Reading of this intercooler condensation issue, which I've never had, thinking to myself I must drive hard enough to keep fresh air passing through the intercooler and eliminate any possibility of water build up. Well, just put an AFE stage II intake and SCT tuner with 5star tunes on the truck. Took it out for a run on the highway, and I think I must have stirred up something. The first 2-3kms it bucked and spit like a mule if I put my foot into it. It then cleared up and haven't been an issue since...?? Logical?

 

Thought the Stage II was for the 2012 truck, due to the 11 truck having a different intake sensor design. Hope you like and have no more troubles. It would seem the ones who get the poorer mileage also are the ones having the IC dew point problems. Related?

 

You have your Ethyls mixed up.

Ethenol, which is known as Ethyl alcohol or grain alcohol, is the same stuff you find in alcoholic beverages.

"Ethyl", as found in motor fuels prior to the mid 1970s, is actually a product produced originally by the General Motors Chemical Corporation, which eventually became the Ethyl Corporation. The "Ethyl" was tetraethyl lead. Beware Wiki, but it appears this is mostly correct. They do talk about ethanol as an octane booster early on, and it's problems compared to lead.

Tetraethyllead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ethyl Corp info:

About Ethyl - Ethyl Corporation


Tetrethyl lead: (CH<SUB>3</SUB>CH<SUB>2</SUB>)<SUB>4</SUB>Pb.

Ethanol: CH<SUB>3</SUB>CH<SUB>2</SUB>OH (see the artical for some explanation of that and some variations. I'm not a chemist....)

 

Believe everybody knows about tetraethyl lead and its banning. Believe the first Octane booster to be added for gasoline was Ethanol. The point was water took it out of suspension and stored poorly back then in above ground tanks as water will still instantly take it out of suspension.

 

Fair enough, but you stated the term "Ethyl" for premium gasoline came from ethanol, and I believe the record shows it came from the lead additive, a product of the Ethyl Corporation. Ethanol was used early on and in Europe, but fell out of favor for the reasons you list.

http://enquirer.com/editions/2003/02...odate0202.html

However, there is a link between ethanol and "ethyl" gas, note the history for 1921:

http://66.147.244.135/~enviror4/spec...tory-timeline/

They were talking 30% ethanol. Better not let that stand around open to the atmosphere on a humid day..... SO, you are actually "right" about the source of the term "Ethyl", but the use of the term referred to lead, and the artical suggests it was intentional so as to "cover" (my term) the negative effects of spewing lead into the air.

 

They've redesigned it for the 2011 as well. Very nice fit and finish. I haven't had the issus since.

 

Marine Stabil is blue bottle for ethanol while automotive stabil is red to help chemically loc ethanol to gas molecules for over 3 month storages.