Big Blackie - The Build
#736
08-10-2015, 02:05 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
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You may have to increase your post count before some of the features of the site are available to you.
However most of the time it is usually better to ask questions in the thread because then everyone can benefit from the answer and future people won't have to ask the same question.
#737
08-10-2015, 02:06 PM
To send a PM to someone click on their username and then select "Send Private Message."
You may have to increase your post count before some of the features of the site are available to you.
However most of the time it is usually better to ask questions in the thread because then everyone can benefit from the answer and future people won't have to ask the same question.
You may have to increase your post count before some of the features of the site are available to you.
However most of the time it is usually better to ask questions in the thread because then everyone can benefit from the answer and future people won't have to ask the same question.
#738
08-10-2015, 07:13 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
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Well you can go back to this post for the pictures, but here is the description:
- I took some balsa strips that were probably 1/8" thick by about 1/2" wide or so, doesn't really matter, and by snapping off small lengths and gluing them together using CA glue (superglue) while holding them to the floor (being careful not to glue the carpet), I came up with a crude approximation of the contours of the surface where the two sides (or walls) of the console would rest. It was tedious and in the end the templates as I say were not very accurate because balsa wood is flimsy and it bends and I only had two hands when I needed about 5.
- You might be able to do something similar with a long piece of metal rod that you could bend similar to a coat hanger (a coat hanger wouldn't probably be long enough though). You can buy long pieces like this which are known as "piano wire" at hobby shops and some hardware stores. I don't know, just an idea.
- I then transferred by pencil the outlines I had made with the balsa sticks to some thin luan panels I had got at Home Depot. Using a jigsaw I cut the luan along my pencil line, then took the two panels back to the truck to see how well they contoured to the floor. To be honest, it was not very well. So I then made marks on the luan where I needed to remove material but in some places I needed to add material so in the end I made probably at least 3 luan panels for each side before I had something that I thought fit well, as I continued to refine the shape.
- Once I got pretty close I cut out the particle board pieces but even then I had to adjust them slightly with a rasp and the fit was never perfect.
- Basically the whole process was a lot of trial and error more than anything scientific or deliberate.
It might have been better to make a template of the bare metal floor rather than after the carpet was installed, because the carpet obscured a lot of features.
The good thing about the carpet though is that it hides small imperfections where the fit wasn't exact. And with the soft FoamKing pad underneath the carpet, the carpet itself, the soft vinyl wrapped around the console, and the enormous weight of the console, the whole thing has sunk in and even though the fit wasn't perfect you'd think it was to look at it.
I hope that helps a little bit. If you try to do something similar, just go out there and start fiddling and I think you will figure it out. Good luck.
- I took some balsa strips that were probably 1/8" thick by about 1/2" wide or so, doesn't really matter, and by snapping off small lengths and gluing them together using CA glue (superglue) while holding them to the floor (being careful not to glue the carpet), I came up with a crude approximation of the contours of the surface where the two sides (or walls) of the console would rest. It was tedious and in the end the templates as I say were not very accurate because balsa wood is flimsy and it bends and I only had two hands when I needed about 5.
- You might be able to do something similar with a long piece of metal rod that you could bend similar to a coat hanger (a coat hanger wouldn't probably be long enough though). You can buy long pieces like this which are known as "piano wire" at hobby shops and some hardware stores. I don't know, just an idea.
- I then transferred by pencil the outlines I had made with the balsa sticks to some thin luan panels I had got at Home Depot. Using a jigsaw I cut the luan along my pencil line, then took the two panels back to the truck to see how well they contoured to the floor. To be honest, it was not very well. So I then made marks on the luan where I needed to remove material but in some places I needed to add material so in the end I made probably at least 3 luan panels for each side before I had something that I thought fit well, as I continued to refine the shape.
- Once I got pretty close I cut out the particle board pieces but even then I had to adjust them slightly with a rasp and the fit was never perfect.
- Basically the whole process was a lot of trial and error more than anything scientific or deliberate.
It might have been better to make a template of the bare metal floor rather than after the carpet was installed, because the carpet obscured a lot of features.
The good thing about the carpet though is that it hides small imperfections where the fit wasn't exact. And with the soft FoamKing pad underneath the carpet, the carpet itself, the soft vinyl wrapped around the console, and the enormous weight of the console, the whole thing has sunk in and even though the fit wasn't perfect you'd think it was to look at it.
I hope that helps a little bit. If you try to do something similar, just go out there and start fiddling and I think you will figure it out. Good luck.
#739
08-10-2015, 08:04 PM
Thank you
Well you can go back to this post for the pictures, but here is the description:
- I took some balsa strips that were probably 1/8" thick by about 1/2" wide or so, doesn't really matter, and by snapping off small lengths and gluing them together using CA glue (superglue) while holding them to the floor (being careful not to glue the carpet), I came up with a crude approximation of the contours of the surface where the two sides (or walls) of the console would rest. It was tedious and in the end the templates as I say were not very accurate because balsa wood is flimsy and it bends and I only had two hands when I needed about 5.
- You might be able to do something similar with a long piece of metal rod that you could bend similar to a coat hanger (a coat hanger wouldn't probably be long enough though). You can buy long pieces like this which are known as "piano wire" at hobby shops and some hardware stores. I don't know, just an idea.
- I then transferred by pencil the outlines I had made with the balsa sticks to some thin luan panels I had got at Home Depot. Using a jigsaw I cut the luan along my pencil line, then took the two panels back to the truck to see how well they contoured to the floor. To be honest, it was not very well. So I then made marks on the luan where I needed to remove material but in some places I needed to add material so in the end I made probably at least 3 luan panels for each side before I had something that I thought fit well, as I continued to refine the shape.
- Once I got pretty close I cut out the particle board pieces but even then I had to adjust them slightly with a rasp and the fit was never perfect.
- Basically the whole process was a lot of trial and error more than anything scientific or deliberate.
It might have been better to make a template of the bare metal floor rather than after the carpet was installed, because the carpet obscured a lot of features.
The good thing about the carpet though is that it hides small imperfections where the fit wasn't exact. And with the soft FoamKing pad underneath the carpet, the carpet itself, the soft vinyl wrapped around the console, and the enormous weight of the console, the whole thing has sunk in and even though the fit wasn't perfect you'd think it was to look at it.
I hope that helps a little bit. If you try to do something similar, just go out there and start fiddling and I think you will figure it out. Good luck.
- I took some balsa strips that were probably 1/8" thick by about 1/2" wide or so, doesn't really matter, and by snapping off small lengths and gluing them together using CA glue (superglue) while holding them to the floor (being careful not to glue the carpet), I came up with a crude approximation of the contours of the surface where the two sides (or walls) of the console would rest. It was tedious and in the end the templates as I say were not very accurate because balsa wood is flimsy and it bends and I only had two hands when I needed about 5.
- You might be able to do something similar with a long piece of metal rod that you could bend similar to a coat hanger (a coat hanger wouldn't probably be long enough though). You can buy long pieces like this which are known as "piano wire" at hobby shops and some hardware stores. I don't know, just an idea.
- I then transferred by pencil the outlines I had made with the balsa sticks to some thin luan panels I had got at Home Depot. Using a jigsaw I cut the luan along my pencil line, then took the two panels back to the truck to see how well they contoured to the floor. To be honest, it was not very well. So I then made marks on the luan where I needed to remove material but in some places I needed to add material so in the end I made probably at least 3 luan panels for each side before I had something that I thought fit well, as I continued to refine the shape.
- Once I got pretty close I cut out the particle board pieces but even then I had to adjust them slightly with a rasp and the fit was never perfect.
- Basically the whole process was a lot of trial and error more than anything scientific or deliberate.
It might have been better to make a template of the bare metal floor rather than after the carpet was installed, because the carpet obscured a lot of features.
The good thing about the carpet though is that it hides small imperfections where the fit wasn't exact. And with the soft FoamKing pad underneath the carpet, the carpet itself, the soft vinyl wrapped around the console, and the enormous weight of the console, the whole thing has sunk in and even though the fit wasn't perfect you'd think it was to look at it.
I hope that helps a little bit. If you try to do something similar, just go out there and start fiddling and I think you will figure it out. Good luck.
Great that helps alot and my last question does p&s really work i wanted to dynamat the enterior but its expensive
#740
08-10-2015, 10:03 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
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Well the more interesting question is whether Peal & Seal works as well as Dynamat, and that I don't know because I've never tried Dynamat. I would hope Dynamat works better or else they are totally ripping people off, but how much better it is, I don't know that either.
My truck is definitely quieter with the P&S but if you are expecting it to be like the silence of a tomb you will be disappointed (I was expecting the silence of a tomb and I was disappointed). But I think there is a limit to how quiet these trucks can be due to their poor aerodynamics, door seals, etc...
Basically I don't really have a good answer. I guess I'd say the P&S works pretty darn good considering the cost of it. Dynamat may work great but my personal opinion is that it's a poor value for what you spend on it.
But if funds were limitless I would have used Dynamat.
My truck is definitely quieter with the P&S but if you are expecting it to be like the silence of a tomb you will be disappointed (I was expecting the silence of a tomb and I was disappointed). But I think there is a limit to how quiet these trucks can be due to their poor aerodynamics, door seals, etc...
Basically I don't really have a good answer. I guess I'd say the P&S works pretty darn good considering the cost of it. Dynamat may work great but my personal opinion is that it's a poor value for what you spend on it.
But if funds were limitless I would have used Dynamat.
#741
11-29-2015, 10:34 PM
Heres a link that compares GRACE roofing to Dynamat.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CarAV/comme...0_better_than/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CarAV/comme...0_better_than/
In the bench test, the result is obvious. A single layer of asphalt-based roofing material provides some damping to the sheet metal, an increase of about 29% average damping factor. But a single layer of CLD is phenomenally more effective with an average increase of 770%! So, myth busted, Grace Ice & Water Shield may be a fine roofing material, but it is nearly worthless as a damping material.
In the car door test, the results are much less clear. Two layers of Grace yields an average decrease (!) in damping factor by 1%, but a single layer of Roadkill only has an increase of 13% on average. Confused by this, I tried to go crazy and added more Roadkill to the outer door skin, applied some to the inner door skin, and then added a mass-loaded-vinyl barrier to the inner door skin to further isolate noise and prevent it from entering the cabin. Even with these stronger measures I only saw an increase of 26% damping over the factory car door.
So what is going on? Clearly from the bench test a single layer of Roadkill (on 25% surface area) should have a drastic effect on damping factor for sheet metal. However the car door behaves differently. I believe the car door having (1) an outer wall of sheet metal and (2) an inner wall of sheet metal and (3) another inner wall of plastic and vinyl door card and (4) air chambers between all these layers are responsible. I believe the air chambers themselves have resonances that cannot be affected by damping the sheet metal and must be addressed other ways.
Conclusion? Buy a CLD tile from a common brand (or sounddeadenershowdown) and apply it in a single layer over about 25% to 50% surface area for excellent results (adding more doesn't increase benefits for the high additional cost). Also, further study needed to find sources of resonance in car doors. I'll have measurements for a new idea to address this soon.
In the car door test, the results are much less clear. Two layers of Grace yields an average decrease (!) in damping factor by 1%, but a single layer of Roadkill only has an increase of 13% on average. Confused by this, I tried to go crazy and added more Roadkill to the outer door skin, applied some to the inner door skin, and then added a mass-loaded-vinyl barrier to the inner door skin to further isolate noise and prevent it from entering the cabin. Even with these stronger measures I only saw an increase of 26% damping over the factory car door.
So what is going on? Clearly from the bench test a single layer of Roadkill (on 25% surface area) should have a drastic effect on damping factor for sheet metal. However the car door behaves differently. I believe the car door having (1) an outer wall of sheet metal and (2) an inner wall of sheet metal and (3) another inner wall of plastic and vinyl door card and (4) air chambers between all these layers are responsible. I believe the air chambers themselves have resonances that cannot be affected by damping the sheet metal and must be addressed other ways.
Conclusion? Buy a CLD tile from a common brand (or sounddeadenershowdown) and apply it in a single layer over about 25% to 50% surface area for excellent results (adding more doesn't increase benefits for the high additional cost). Also, further study needed to find sources of resonance in car doors. I'll have measurements for a new idea to address this soon.
#742
11-30-2015, 07:52 AM
Fleet Owner
Well the more interesting question is whether Peal & Seal works as well as Dynamat, and that I don't know because I've never tried Dynamat. I would hope Dynamat works better or else they are totally ripping people off, but how much better it is, I don't know that either.
My truck is definitely quieter with the P&S but if you are expecting it to be like the silence of a tomb you will be disappointed (I was expecting the silence of a tomb and I was disappointed). But I think there is a limit to how quiet these trucks can be due to their poor aerodynamics, door seals, etc...
Basically I don't really have a good answer. I guess I'd say the P&S works pretty darn good considering the cost of it. Dynamat may work great but my personal opinion is that it's a poor value for what you spend on it.
But if funds were limitless I would have used Dynamat.
My truck is definitely quieter with the P&S but if you are expecting it to be like the silence of a tomb you will be disappointed (I was expecting the silence of a tomb and I was disappointed). But I think there is a limit to how quiet these trucks can be due to their poor aerodynamics, door seals, etc...
Basically I don't really have a good answer. I guess I'd say the P&S works pretty darn good considering the cost of it. Dynamat may work great but my personal opinion is that it's a poor value for what you spend on it.
But if funds were limitless I would have used Dynamat.
I paid $125 to do the ENTIRE cab of my 97 crewcab. Dynamat would of been over $800. With the peal-n-seal, I only needed the radio on 1/4 volume(with only the right rear speaker working) before I had to have it at 3/4 and all the speakers working. Also, no more diesel rattle after the install. Heavy rain made you hang up the phone before. After you could have a conversation with no problem at all.
To be honest, I also did 1/8 closed cell foam on the floor too
#743
05-27-2016, 10:01 PM
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Location: Fort Worth
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hvac blend and mode door help!
Now for my protracted battles with the climate control system. I spent more time on the plenum doors than I did on any other part of the entire interior of my cab, and did more than a little head scratching at several points.
As many of you know who have dared to look into your dash, there are various doors that control the air flow of the heater/AC system. (By the way, my truck has factory AC). Whereas Ford had been content to use plastic on all sorts of other pieces by the mid 80s, they still manufactured three of the four moving doors inside the climate ducting out of stamped steel. These doors are also covered in some kind of foam.
The problem with the foam is that after 30 years it has turned to dust. The problem with the stamped steel is that after 30 years of leaking windows in Oregon they had turned to rust.
The doors are also installed inside the plenum chambers and the chambers (made of plastic) are held together with essentially permanent rivet-thingys. However it is still possible to remove every door, it's just a bit of a hassle.
Here are some pics of a few of the doors and the initial clean-up.
Hot/cold blend door:
Fresh air/recirculating air door, even worse shape. Also notice the amount of filth inside the air passage in the background:
Scraping off the crumbling foam:
Surfaces cleaned, sanded, and treated with phosphoric acid to convert the rust (which is why the rust has turned black in the pits):
As many of you know who have dared to look into your dash, there are various doors that control the air flow of the heater/AC system. (By the way, my truck has factory AC). Whereas Ford had been content to use plastic on all sorts of other pieces by the mid 80s, they still manufactured three of the four moving doors inside the climate ducting out of stamped steel. These doors are also covered in some kind of foam.
The problem with the foam is that after 30 years it has turned to dust. The problem with the stamped steel is that after 30 years of leaking windows in Oregon they had turned to rust.
The doors are also installed inside the plenum chambers and the chambers (made of plastic) are held together with essentially permanent rivet-thingys. However it is still possible to remove every door, it's just a bit of a hassle.
Here are some pics of a few of the doors and the initial clean-up.
Hot/cold blend door:
Fresh air/recirculating air door, even worse shape. Also notice the amount of filth inside the air passage in the background:
Scraping off the crumbling foam:
Surfaces cleaned, sanded, and treated with phosphoric acid to convert the rust (which is why the rust has turned black in the pits):
#744
05-28-2016, 12:32 AM
More Turbo
#745
05-28-2016, 05:43 AM
I did not go thru this thread but to add to the HVAC part you may want to give DMT Detroit Muscle Technologies Gaskets AMC Mopar Dodge Plymouth Chrysler Ford Mercury GM Chevy Pontiac Chevrolet a call to see if they have gaskets for the HVAC system. I have used them for my 70 AMC car, they don't list a kit for. If they do not sometimes you can send them what you have and they can make them. Then they would have a pattern for any one else needing them. Dave ----
#746
05-28-2016, 12:01 PM
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Location: Corvallis, OR
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Mr VT, when you say "the plastic part that sticks out that the rod attaches to" I presume you mean the plastic piece shown in this post. It's just part of the door that selects between defrost/dash, I didn't make it.
On mine the hinge part of that plastic piece was about gone so I replaced the hinge and riveted the plastic lever arm back to the door. Perhaps the hinge on your has broken, or some other internal linkage has broken if you can move it without resistance.
The only thing I would know to do is take the dash pad off, and you may have to loosen the dash as well I can't remember, and then remove and inspect those ducts to see what the issue is. Really there is no way to service these ducts without removing them completely.
On mine the hinge part of that plastic piece was about gone so I replaced the hinge and riveted the plastic lever arm back to the door. Perhaps the hinge on your has broken, or some other internal linkage has broken if you can move it without resistance.
The only thing I would know to do is take the dash pad off, and you may have to loosen the dash as well I can't remember, and then remove and inspect those ducts to see what the issue is. Really there is no way to service these ducts without removing them completely.
#747
05-28-2016, 12:09 PM
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SCFlareside: Here's the update, and it's basically the same as it's been for the past year or two. The engine makes a ticking noise that I don't know what it is, but I've eliminated a whole lot of things it's not, including all the accessories and top end. I fear something was damaged early on after I got the new engine installed when I blew a freeze plug (it was actually a block heater), and I lost all my coolant and the engine overheated.
At that same time (summer 2014) I lost the garage I was renting because they were tired of me working on this truck there, which was actually against the lease. I live in an apartment so I have no place to work on it and no way to fix it. For the past two years the truck has been sitting in a storage unit.
I have been saving my pennies to buy a house for basically the sole purpose of getting a garage so I can resume work on this truck. I think I finally have about enough and later this summer I am moving from Oregon to Kansas where I have some family and house prices are a lot cheaper.
The truck still drives and I plan to drive it from here to Kansas, ticking noise notwithstanding. Hopefully it will make it. If it does then perhaps by 2017 I can get back to work on it. Maybe I can even make it to one of Gary's GTGs someday.
That's the udpate!
At that same time (summer 2014) I lost the garage I was renting because they were tired of me working on this truck there, which was actually against the lease. I live in an apartment so I have no place to work on it and no way to fix it. For the past two years the truck has been sitting in a storage unit.
I have been saving my pennies to buy a house for basically the sole purpose of getting a garage so I can resume work on this truck. I think I finally have about enough and later this summer I am moving from Oregon to Kansas where I have some family and house prices are a lot cheaper.
The truck still drives and I plan to drive it from here to Kansas, ticking noise notwithstanding. Hopefully it will make it. If it does then perhaps by 2017 I can get back to work on it. Maybe I can even make it to one of Gary's GTGs someday.
That's the udpate!
#748
05-28-2016, 04:13 PM
Posting Legend
#749
05-28-2016, 06:56 PM
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Gary as you know Kansas is my home state too though I haven't lived there in a long time. I'm moving to Wichita the first week of September. It may be a stretch to make the GTG this year ... Even if you schedule it later in September I'm guessing I'll be too busy with the move stuff to get away, but who knows. For sure I'd like to make it in 2017 and with any luck by then this truck will be in dependable condition.
We might have an opportunity to meet just the two of us though at some other time, since we won't be all that far apart.
We might have an opportunity to meet just the two of us though at some other time, since we won't be all that far apart.
#750
05-29-2016, 10:26 PM
Posting Legend