Does Pertronix make a module for a 55 239 ?
#1
#5
Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did loose a race one time because the ignition points broke. in a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these e-box companies, in street applications (where max RPM is 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg).there is less than 1% improvement in performance.
very good quality ignition points/condensors are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes, then i had them get a good set of points/condnsor, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying an e-box, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.
While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circutry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% originate). any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil.yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions.including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart.
The following users liked this post:
#7
You will have to excuse me a little here, but, what is more reliable than points......certainly not e-boxes. Yes you can hear people state "It runs so much smoother/better than when it had points"........in each case that an indicidual said that in my presense, they had very litle knowledge about points and the ones they were running were- old & tired.
Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did loose a race one time because the ignition points broke. in a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these e-box companies, in street applications (where max RPM is 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg).there is less than 1% improvement in performance.
very good quality ignition points/condensors are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes, then i had them get a good set of points/condnsor, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying an e-box, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.
While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circutry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% originate). any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil.yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions.including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart.
Points were used in NASCAR up through the late 1970's, running speeds of 200mph+.........Cale Yarborough did loose a race one time because the ignition points broke. in a street application, if you look at the data very closely that is provided by these e-box companies, in street applications (where max RPM is 6000), when the standard dyno deviation is removed (5% standard per every dyno mfg).there is less than 1% improvement in performance.
very good quality ignition points/condensors are available and when set properly, are very reliable and provide excellent performance. There have been no less than 5 people who I personally knew were going to get e-boxes, then i had them get a good set of points/condnsor, a high voltage (40k+) coil, and installed them showing them specifically how to do it......the engines ran smooth and strong. One person did end up buying an e-box, why, because he said he just got tired of not being "cool", after spending $500 for a distributor, etc (he went high end), a year later (when he asked me to help him fix something) he admitted, it was a waste of $...it didn't run any better than after we put the points in.
While many state the positives of e-boxes (and there are certainly many positive attributes), there are conditions which reduce an e-boxes effectiveness & reliability....to start with the circutry and handling (container vessel shipping) of it from China (which is where 90% originate). any aspect including temperature control, static safeguards, moisture can & will cause both detectable and undetectable damage which may not show up until after you have subjected the installed component to real world vibrations, heat, cold, moisture & grease/oil.yes, all of these damage e-components, but the systems (based upon a variety of factors) are suppose to be prepared to endure these exposures but that is based upon many, many assumptions.including proper handling & q/a.......given all of the 3rd party involvement in the final product, it is unrealistic (IMHO) to believe that e-boxes have an increased reliability as compared to their mechanical-based counterpart.
Trending Topics
#9
Myself nor my father who (raced flatheads from the late 40's up until the 70's- 134 mph in 1948 at Lions Drag, 149 mph in 1949 at El Mirage) and myself who still run the old stuff, I've never experienced the strain of setting & maintaining points- my 65 Hipo mustang, which I did a ground up in 1986/7, still has the Blue Streak points I installed back then, untouched with about 12,000 miles.
While I have never doubted the value of OEM e-boxes (which is a far different product interms of quality & perfromance), when run on a dyno, back to back with "good" ( not tired) parts, in RPM ranges not exceeding 6k, the hp/tq difference was less than 2%- and that was only at 4000+ rpm.......
With regards to the oems, the day of e-boxes is coming to an end because of numerous issues, specifically efficiency........Ford (for one) is developing servos to replace lifters and lasers to replace spark plugs/e-boxes....BTW, this is really nothing new as BMW used this tech in Europe on select cars about 15 years ago.
The point being, even by the aftermarkets own literature (or PR as I refer to it), there is very little gain (as typical dyno deviation is 5% per mfgs) if at all to running e-boxes as compared to points unless you are unfamiliar with engine tuning, then as many do today, buy the e-kits that includes converted carbs/induction systems, ignitions, etc, bolt it on a drive it while the ECM tunes as you drive....very simple, very easy...and when it "breaks", then if we can't figure it out, we just replace all the e-boxes.
While I have never doubted the value of OEM e-boxes (which is a far different product interms of quality & perfromance), when run on a dyno, back to back with "good" ( not tired) parts, in RPM ranges not exceeding 6k, the hp/tq difference was less than 2%- and that was only at 4000+ rpm.......
With regards to the oems, the day of e-boxes is coming to an end because of numerous issues, specifically efficiency........Ford (for one) is developing servos to replace lifters and lasers to replace spark plugs/e-boxes....BTW, this is really nothing new as BMW used this tech in Europe on select cars about 15 years ago.
The point being, even by the aftermarkets own literature (or PR as I refer to it), there is very little gain (as typical dyno deviation is 5% per mfgs) if at all to running e-boxes as compared to points unless you are unfamiliar with engine tuning, then as many do today, buy the e-kits that includes converted carbs/induction systems, ignitions, etc, bolt it on a drive it while the ECM tunes as you drive....very simple, very easy...and when it "breaks", then if we can't figure it out, we just replace all the e-boxes.
#11
Myself nor my father who (raced flatheads from the late 40's up until the 70's- 134 mph in 1948 at Lions Drag, 149 mph in 1949 at El Mirage) and myself who still run the old stuff, I've never experienced the strain of setting & maintaining points- my 65 Hipo mustang, which I did a ground up in 1986/7, still has the Blue Streak points I installed back then, untouched with about 12,000 miles.
While I have never doubted the value of OEM e-boxes (which is a far different product interms of quality & perfromance), when run on a dyno, back to back with "good" ( not tired) parts, in RPM ranges not exceeding 6k, the hp/tq difference was less than 2%- and that was only at 4000+ rpm.......
With regards to the oems, the day of e-boxes is coming to an end because of numerous issues, specifically efficiency........Ford (for one) is developing servos to replace lifters and lasers to replace spark plugs/e-boxes....BTW, this is really nothing new as BMW used this tech in Europe on select cars about 15 years ago.
The point being, even by the aftermarkets own literature (or <acronym title="Page Ranking">PR</acronym> as I refer to it), there is very little gain (as typical dyno deviation is 5% per mfgs) if at all to running e-boxes as compared to points unless you are unfamiliar with engine tuning, then as many do today, buy the e-kits that includes converted carbs/induction systems, ignitions, etc, bolt it on a drive it while the ECM tunes as you drive....very simple, very easy...and when it "breaks", then if we can't figure it out, we just replace all the e-boxes.
While I have never doubted the value of OEM e-boxes (which is a far different product interms of quality & perfromance), when run on a dyno, back to back with "good" ( not tired) parts, in RPM ranges not exceeding 6k, the hp/tq difference was less than 2%- and that was only at 4000+ rpm.......
With regards to the oems, the day of e-boxes is coming to an end because of numerous issues, specifically efficiency........Ford (for one) is developing servos to replace lifters and lasers to replace spark plugs/e-boxes....BTW, this is really nothing new as BMW used this tech in Europe on select cars about 15 years ago.
The point being, even by the aftermarkets own literature (or <acronym title="Page Ranking">PR</acronym> as I refer to it), there is very little gain (as typical dyno deviation is 5% per mfgs) if at all to running e-boxes as compared to points unless you are unfamiliar with engine tuning, then as many do today, buy the e-kits that includes converted carbs/induction systems, ignitions, etc, bolt it on a drive it while the ECM tunes as you drive....very simple, very easy...and when it "breaks", then if we can't figure it out, we just replace all the e-boxes.
#12
I will say that I haven't noticed anything different with my butt dyno when comparing pertronix to a points setup in good working order and tune. I really haven't noticed anything other than a lighter wallet. So I can't say it's better. I also wouldn't put them high on the reliability scale because of the ease with which they burn up if the key is left on. The electronic pickup is more forgiving in a sloppy distributor which, I imagine, is why many people notice a significant improvement.
When I have to spend the dough on an ignition system again it will be for either an MSD or converted Duraspark distributor and an aftermarket box because I have noticed differences going that route.
For me, reliability would be points because it's pretty easy to get out of what would be a tough situation with an electronic system if I have trouble in the middle of nowhere. I really don't have a problem with maintaining them. If I wanted to be absolutely sure I could make it from point a to point b, I'd use points... and this is from a fairly young guy, so I haven't been stuck in the 60s for 50 years (to emphasize how highly I regard the simplicity of points, not trying to imply that anyone is stuck in the 60s).
But I like performance, and I like to notice that I got something for my money, so electronic with an external box it is. Stick with a good brand and it will be pretty darn reliable. I currently have a system from Performance Distributors (D.U.I.) and it is awesome!
When I have to spend the dough on an ignition system again it will be for either an MSD or converted Duraspark distributor and an aftermarket box because I have noticed differences going that route.
For me, reliability would be points because it's pretty easy to get out of what would be a tough situation with an electronic system if I have trouble in the middle of nowhere. I really don't have a problem with maintaining them. If I wanted to be absolutely sure I could make it from point a to point b, I'd use points... and this is from a fairly young guy, so I haven't been stuck in the 60s for 50 years (to emphasize how highly I regard the simplicity of points, not trying to imply that anyone is stuck in the 60s).
But I like performance, and I like to notice that I got something for my money, so electronic with an external box it is. Stick with a good brand and it will be pretty darn reliable. I currently have a system from Performance Distributors (D.U.I.) and it is awesome!
#13
It worked fine. I couldn't tell much difference between it and the points I removed however.....
#14
The one thing they do agree on is the 6 volt EI units are sensitive to a voltage drop and are not very reliable in less than perfect environments . The 12 volt systems are durable .
I have one tractor with a 12v pertonix (sp?) system and have had no problems , I have one with good points with no problem either . I did get a hold of a cheap set of points that the rubbing block wore down after a few hours .
The tractor I converted had a worn lobe on the distributor and the cost of the EI unit was about the same as a replacement shaft .
If you get bored here , go to an N tractor board and ask them which is better , EI or points .
#15
Over at the Ford N tractor boards , this comes up all of the time . Originally the little flathead four cylinder motors have a 6 volt coil and a distributor mounted front and center (hard to get to ). The die hard old school guys will defend points with their last breath and the new school guys the same . It's very entertaining because they both have valid points , he he .
The one thing they do agree on is the 6 volt EI units are sensitive to a voltage drop and are not very reliable in less than perfect environments . The 12 volt systems are durable .
I have one tractor with a 12v pertonix (sp?) system and have had no problems , I have one with good points with no problem either . I did get a hold of a cheap set of points that the rubbing block wore down after a few hours .
The tractor I converted had a worn lobe on the distributor and the cost of the EI unit was about the same as a replacement shaft .
If you get bored here , go to an N tractor board and ask them which is better , EI or points .
The one thing they do agree on is the 6 volt EI units are sensitive to a voltage drop and are not very reliable in less than perfect environments . The 12 volt systems are durable .
I have one tractor with a 12v pertonix (sp?) system and have had no problems , I have one with good points with no problem either . I did get a hold of a cheap set of points that the rubbing block wore down after a few hours .
The tractor I converted had a worn lobe on the distributor and the cost of the EI unit was about the same as a replacement shaft .
If you get bored here , go to an N tractor board and ask them which is better , EI or points .
When I see someone claiming I am on a rant, it reminds me of the "Cold Air" scam............which I can tell yu dating back to 1997 I have been blasted by both K&N reps and FTE members, even though engineers from Ford documented in writing the issues with my new car (90 days old) with the K&N filter......and now that Testand Corporation conducted an ISO standards test on automotive air filters (which from a flow standpoint verified absolutlely the the other half of the issues with these type filters) it's funny that they have all "dissappeared".