My understanding has always been that pulling a battery cable on a spinning alternator would fry the regulator. It was an old test done with generators, which don't need a battery to produce regulated output. I'd find a better test before you cook it good.

 

I've pulled batteries from vehicles runnig an alternator (while running) before. It can be done, but it depends on how the system is wired. In an alternator type system, there should be no draw on the battery after the vehicle is started. The battery is soley used to start the vehicle. Once started and the field is engergized, the alternator is responsible for the systems electrical demands, not the battery. Thats why it's important to select the proper amp-output alternator for your system and accessories.
Now with a generator, it's completely backwards. The system is constanly drawing from the battery and the generator's job is soley to re-charge the battery. You pull a battery cable from a generator powered vehicle, it will most certainly die.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Little Leauge is in full swing now and I've been tearing my house apart looking for this book i have that shows a couple different diagrams for wiring up a Ford Alternator. The 1st diagram, i already gave you (pretty good memory, eh?) The second is designed to work with an idiot light. THese are about the only two ways I know of wiring up a Ford alternator from the 60s on up to the late 70s. In the 80s it changes ever so slightly, but principles stay basically the same. After that came Ford's version of the internally regulated alternator, and honestly i don't know much about them. Would assume they work much in the way the GM ones do.



I'd really, really like to see what you have going on. If you can take pictures, or just draw it up as a diagram. that would be great. I have a feeling that it may have been jimmy-rigged a bit and with the alternator change you may have exposed some shoddy wiring, or it could be as simple as just another component failure. It's not uncommon for an alternator to wipe out a regulator when the alternator takes a dive (or vice versa) Had it happen to me just a few weeks ago on my '69 F100. The alterantor shorted out or failed for what ever reason and it took the regulator out with it. Heck, the regulator could have wiped the alternator out. Either way, both were bad. but you mentioned that you moved/changed some wiring on the back of the alternator. This may or may not be part of your problem.

 

[quote=Dano78;11571523]I've pulled batteries from vehicles runnig an alternator (while running) before. It can be done, but it depends on how the system is wired. In an alternator type system, there should be no draw on the battery after the vehicle is started. The battery is soley used to start the vehicle. Once started and the field is engergized, the alternator is responsible for the systems electrical demands, not the battery. Thats why it's important to select the proper amp-output alternator for your system and accessories.
Now with a generator, it's completely backwards. The system is constanly drawing from the battery and the generator's job is soley to re-charge the battery. You pull a battery cable from a generator powered vehicle, it will most certainly die.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Little Leauge is in full swing now and I've been tearing my house apart looking for this book i have that shows a couple different diagrams for wiring up a Ford Alternator. The 1st diagram, i already gave you (pretty good memory, eh?) The second is designed to work with an idiot light. THese are about the only two ways I know of wiring up a Ford alternator from the 60s on up to the late 70s. In the 80s it changes ever so slightly, but principles stay basically the same. After that came Ford's version of the internally regulated alternator, and honestly i don't know much about them. Would assume they work much in the way the GM ones do.


I'm not sold on this notion Dano. True...once the alternator field is energized, the alternator will produce a charge, but as a system, alternators and generators do the same thing. They charge the battery. Once an engine is started, the ignition system draws 5 amps or so, and if there's an electric fuel pump...a light or two, and maybe the stereo....there is additional demand on the system. Think of the power as all being one big system power bus...after the battery starts the engine. After that it is there to absorb momentary surges, and serve as a big capacitor which will keep the system up. If you remove the battery cable, sometimes the system has enough capacitance to keep the alternator field going, but one little surge, and the alternator field charge can collapse, and the alternator quits producing power. Also note that with a external regulator, when the system is at the proper voltage, the regulator routes the field power through a resistor which is basically connected to the battery circuit. With a generator, the permanent magnets will generate enough residual voltage to keep the field powered.

All in all, it'd be normal to see the engine die if the battery were disconnected....sometimes immediately, and sometimes after some stray load kicks in.

I think 55Fordlover would find out more by measuring voltage at the battery with the engine running....and by trying your field jumper wire test.

One thing I'm not clear on, what changed since the system was last working??

Are you coaching a Little League team?

Dan

 

Oh i can understand that. I didn't believe it either until I've seen it done. Alot may have to do with the type of regulator used, or type of alternator used. In school, that's basically what they had taught us (how the systems functioned). I see your point on the battery acting like a capacitor and the way the Ford charging system is wired, i bet would support that. I have yet to try this on a Ford, but have done as well as seen done on many GM vehicles. Just this last week the mechanics did this very thing to our CAT Road Grader. Funny thing on that one... the batteries in it were from 2001! Gotta love Exides.
As far as what changed on his system, i believe he said he altered the wiring on the back of the alternator? Or was it to the regulator? I'm looking back through the posts and not seeing it... but i know that's what he said. Said it looks like hell or something and he wanted to clean it up. It could be something as simple as wires reversed or on the wrong posts. i'd really like to see what he's got either by pics or a diagram drawn up by him. These Ford Charging systems (even externally regulated) are so disgustingly simple... I'm sure it a stupid-easy fix. Just need to figure out what it is.

No not coaching this year... well 'officially'. Have been tho~, since the boy was in T-ball (last 5 years) but since I'm now a divorced dad with 2 kids, I just couldn't spread myself/time that thin and still be the mom/dad i need to be for my kids. Trust me, its killing me to not be directly 'in the mix'! However, still helping out in practices, games and filling in for field umpiring. Yeah... hard not to be involved, so many deadbeat parents that just don't want to chip in... sad. So I do what I can, when i can. When my daughter gets a little older, I should have the time to get into it full bore again. Will probably end up coaching her anyways! lol

Soooo, if you don't see me around here much in the next few months, you'll know why! I'll still pop in from time to time... I love this place too much to ignore it.

 

Okay not the same engine mine is 360fe but just went thur the same problem. Don't know much about 302 engines but the 360fe alt.field terminal extends past the bearing cap grounds out on the engine blowing alt. Can also take out the voltage reg, it did on my set up anyway.
IMHO I would just get a 3g alt off a tarsus and be done with it. Easy to wirer and if you get one from the junkyard not expensive. Hope this helps, good luck!

 

It shouldn't do that if using the proper brackets and spacer. Ford's been using that style of alternator/brackets on FEs for almost a decade, up until the demise of the FE. Mine is tight, but it has clearance. Using a 65 amp alternator in mine. In alot of cases you can 'clock' the rear part of the alternator so that it will clear better. Do this by removing the 3 long screws that hold the two outside cases together and twist the case piece that mounts the alternator being careful NOT to seperate any of the pieces.

 

I'm not sure if brakets are original on mine but its a problem on the 360's, other members have had the same problem. I did clock mine and it's clear of the engine now but can be a real problem. Just throwing something out there that might help.

 

UPDATE - rewired the entire system from the alternator (with picture help) to the voltage regulator and the starter solenoid...truck charges and no more issues...i would like to personally thank EVERYBODY in this thread for helping me...it was a real pain in my rear and gettin on my nerves BUT the forum came through as usual for me...a great learning curve and now i know a lot more about the charging system...

1 - Purchased a Gold Series battery
2 - New voltage regulator
3 - New gauge wiring and connectors
4 - used a multimeter to check current, amps/volts for everything

H A P P Y 1954 Ford F100 truck now!!!! She drops it low and leaves the others in the rearview mirror!!!!

 

Glad to hear you got it going, being going thur electric issues myself. Think I finally got everything worked out as far as electric now on to other issues. Enjoy the truck!

 

Awesome! That is great news! Now go out and enjoy that thing!!!

 

Outstanding! I'll be rewiring mine in two weeks.

 

That is great news!

Dan