hope this is the right place to ask a stupid question

i had a '81 e-150 new..straight 6 w/ 4 speed stick....put in a tack and would go up i-95 at 60 mph at 1600 rpms.....19mpg

fast foward to 2012 and now i have a 08 e-150 with a 5.4 and auto w/ od.....go up the same road,but now this engine is turning 1700rpms and i'm only doing 48 mph.....and 15.8 mpg at 65mph....did ford forget to put in another gear ????

 

What did (does) each weigh? Tire pressures?
Weight of foot on pedal?
Gasohol vs. 100% fuel? 6 banger vs. V8?


Also, just how accurate is your memory?

 

you are right about my memory.......but if true , shouldn't just that much more HP be able to move the same load faster with the proper gearing ???? maybe some one has or had one of the straight 6's and can give some input....

 

two way different vans, it's nearly apples to oranges...
Don't compare them. enjoy the new one.

 

You probably had taller gears on the 81, I-6.... they were great engines...The 5.4 probably has a 4:10 or even a 3:73 or thereabouts

 

The last straight 6 Econoline i drove for work went 478k. Not to get too off topic here, but i don't think many 5.4s are gonna go that far, except maybe the million mile van.

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but besides the V-10, the 5.4 is the worst gas hog available, it has a lot of torque, but a thirsty animal, the 4.6 is better, as long as you aren't towing. The I-6 likely had like 2.56 gears, the 5.4 usually has 3.50's and 15.8 is rather good with it, I find the best mileage is 72 in mine due to the hills causing it to downshift all the way to 2nd if I try to run 65 MPH. BTW there is no way there are any E-150's with 4.10 gears, you likely have 3.50 in it. I got 17 MPG on a downhill run from Tennessee to Florida doing 70, was 15 coming back, because it was up hill.
Many guys would rather have a 300 and stick shift than a V-8 with any choice of transmission, it has torque and longevity vs any V-8 life span.

 

yes,i have a 3.50 rear.....what i do not understand is the engine rpm different between the 6 and the v8 to maintain 60 mph......i know it has to do with the gearing,but why a lower gearing for a motor w/ much more horsepower..???

 

A 3.50 isn't low, they don't use the high 2.56 gearing anymore, it was before overdrive automatics, they won't hold overdrive with that because it's too ,much overall ratio, every small hill would drop a gear, only work in a flat area, not to mention kill you in town taking off.

 

Different stroke ratio, different powerband, etc. The vee needs to do higher RPMs to get the torque you need to move that brick through the air, the computer decides that's the highest efficiency you'll get at that speed.

I hear ya though, I've been a 4.9 driver most of my life now and I often am mildly alarmed when I drive someone else's vehicle and look down at the tach to see it doing a WHOPPING 2000 RPM at 65mph (I have 2.73 gears so I can do it much lower).

 

The lower the number, the taller the gear, not the other way around, diesels are the same way, the power band is low, they don't like screaming, neither did the old gas tractor engines, max out at 1600 RPM, could run all day on a small amount of fuel. The V-10 Ford has is the big lackey IMHO, to get tall gears, they have a 5 speed auto, the 5th gear, final ratio is identical to the 4 speeds 4th, they have to put in a lower first gear, and mate it to a 3.50 rear ratio, not high by no means.
The inline engines were lacking in efficiency early on, unless matched with multiple carbs, a single by design, would feed minimal fuel to the furthest cylinders, fuel injection put real potential in them. Who hadn't heard of those garage nuts who would modify their intakes to add carburetors and go out to the track to put the V-8's in their place. Their design, placement of the crank to the cylinders, along with strength from each cylinder being separated by mains, talk about bullet proof, what the V had was RPM. Why is it that almost all heavy machinery and farm equipment has an inline engine?
I'd like a 300 with fuel injection to drop in my 73 Econoline, not sure the fit with the upper intake tho, need measurements on it, and the difference of the 170/200 used at the time, I don't care for my 302.
BTW if you focus as it's shifting, you'll feel 5 times, 1-4, then the last is the lockup/torque converter, kind of like another gear as it's a direct drive from the engine, so to speak, adds to efficiency. A friend, he has a 95 E-150 300/c-6, was on a trip with a guy who bought a 2000 E-150 with the 5.4, he laughed because they got the same mileage on the trip, this was in 2000, it was a new van, well the new van was a high top, the older wasn't. He still has the 95, has 360,000 miles on it, sluggish, but has the original injectors, I suspect they're shot, the van doesn't smoke uses 1 qt every 5000 miles, the 2000 needed an engine at 140,000 then was totaled in an accident.

 

Maples, I have to respectfully disagree with your statement about carbed I6's. The EFI ones are much less efficient than the carbureted ones, at least as far as I've seen. It would seem that the carb creates better fuel mixture and atomization, and can run closer to stoichiometric than the computer is programmed for.

Not really sure what you meant by "efficient", though, if you meant in terms of power output, then yes, EFI rules. The low maintenance is nice too.

If you ever get it in your head to put an EFI 4.9 in your 73, please keep us posted. You now have me wondering how that could be done.

There has to be some kind of aftermarket intake that doesn't take up so much space. I'm also thinking there must be some easy way to build one yourself and attach the factory throttle to it. Hrmmmmm.

What about the bell and an SBF trans? Would that fit, or is the tunnel too small?

 

1981 FORD Econoline brochure lists 2.47, 2.75, 3.00, 3.33 & 3.73 for rear axle ratios.

2008 FORD E-Series brochure lists 3.55, 3.73, 4.10 & 4.56 for rear axle ratios.

2008 brochure also gives specs on E-150 van & wagon w/4.6 motor & 4.10 axle ratio, as does the 2012 brochure.

You might've also been "missing something ??" interesting in the 1980 FORD Econoline brochure. The boast: "Best gas mileage estimates and longest range of any van built in America!"

For E-150 w/4.9L I6 and Manual 4 Spd OD FORD advertised 26 EPA est. MPG & 1,043 range!

 

2011 Ford F 150 Transmission Features .: News



maybe this answers part of my question

 

I don't see a carb optimizing mileage over injection as it's a mist sprayed in each port verse what is dumped in a central location centered in the block, having further travel to the outer cylinders, only multiple carbs could give a similar even amount.
I really need measurements on the overall width, intake and all, including the distributor and oil filter, yet the filter can be relocated. I was looking at the aftermarket carb intake, big, takes even more room, I still believe a dual carb would be better over single because of the design, but room is an issue, injected is best. Old school hot rodders were customizing stock intakes for dual carbs in the 60's, even the ones on engines with integrated head/intakes, I had Hot Rod magazines with pictures of them. The SBF and 300 share the same trans mounting, but all 300's got the C-6, my 73 has a C-4, but can be swapped for the AOD with a V-8 by putting the trans mount in the I-6 holes, it's longer. Obviously can't be combined with the I-6 without making a transmission support because you will need to put the short C-4 in the back holes, the longer AOD would have no mount. I'm a I-6 fan, the sound, the torque, mileage is better because the power band is lower, but I think today's speed limits have made them run their course, they don't like high RPMs, and not many people want a standard shift, the automatic can't match the final ratio of a 5 speed stick.
BTW the last EFI I-6 was with mass air flow, not speed density, it read the actual speed the air came in and temp, adjusting fuel to match, giving you more power, was tunable for add ons like intake, exhaust and a few other things. Carbs are simple, that's why many people stick to them, the only electronics is in the ignition, and it's minimal, but an improved injection system can be tuned on a laptop, with a little tweaking here and there, power can be increased without getting dirty.