3g question
3g question
i'm planning to install the 130a 3g alt in my 87 E350 diesel, as the stock alt just can't keep up with my inverter. last time i installed one in a friend's '68 F250, i had trouble finding a 2-v pulley that would fit with the shaft length of the alt, as every 3g i've found has a serpentine belt, and a relatively short shaft to go with that pulley. coping with this problem, we ground off enough of the case to allow the pulley to clear the case, but shaft length was still just a little short to fully hold the nut, but leaving the lock washer behind and adding some loctite got it working, with the nut extending 1 thread past the end of the shaft.
since i'm planning to do this upgrade to my van, does anybody know of a 2-v pulley that will properly fit the alternator, and where to find one?
since i'm planning to do this upgrade to my van, does anybody know of a 2-v pulley that will properly fit the alternator, and where to find one?
According to this thread in another board, you cannot really use the high output of the 3g without using double pulleys or the serpentine belt.
3G alternator with V belt ? - ClassicBroncos.com Forums
I believe there is a link in the thread for a place to buy the pulleys also.
3G alternator with V belt ? - ClassicBroncos.com Forums
I believe there is a link in the thread for a place to buy the pulleys also.
i was intending to run 2 V-belts to it, thus my intent of finding a 2-v pulley, as single-v-belt pulleys have no trouble connecting to this alternator.
thanks for the link, i browsed most of that thread and didn't notice a link to the right pulley, though it may have been on the last page.
anyway, i found myself at the junkyard today and picked up an alternator off a 95 taurus 3.0, i found that the 3.0s had the narrow mounting pattern and the 3.8s had the wide mounting pattern. i also found that older dodge trucks, roughly around 1980 (i didn't check years) had a suitable pulley for my application, only 1/4" thick at the mounting surface and built for 2 V-belts, though i noticed its intended for a narrower belt than my diesel has, i can make it work. its pulley diameter is only 3/8" smaller than my current pulley, which seems rather large to me (3" roughly) mounting this pulley, i found a 5/8 lock washer installed before the pulley made a suitable spacer to keep the pulley from rubbing on the alt body as it otherwise would. note that the shaft diameter is closer to 11/16 or 17mm, but i didn't have a suitable washer or spacer in that size, so i chose the lock washer that could stretch for the larger size.
the question i still have though, is the wiring diagram for my existing alternator, as the online books give me a very questionable wiring diagram. my current setup has an amp gage, while the alt i picked up (and all i'm aware of for similar applications) are for idiot lights, is how to connect the amp gage that came with my van , or if i should look for a cluster that comes with an idiot light... if nothing else i can mount an aftermarket idiot light somewhere, as i did last time i installed one of these
thanks for the link, i browsed most of that thread and didn't notice a link to the right pulley, though it may have been on the last page.
anyway, i found myself at the junkyard today and picked up an alternator off a 95 taurus 3.0, i found that the 3.0s had the narrow mounting pattern and the 3.8s had the wide mounting pattern. i also found that older dodge trucks, roughly around 1980 (i didn't check years) had a suitable pulley for my application, only 1/4" thick at the mounting surface and built for 2 V-belts, though i noticed its intended for a narrower belt than my diesel has, i can make it work. its pulley diameter is only 3/8" smaller than my current pulley, which seems rather large to me (3" roughly) mounting this pulley, i found a 5/8 lock washer installed before the pulley made a suitable spacer to keep the pulley from rubbing on the alt body as it otherwise would. note that the shaft diameter is closer to 11/16 or 17mm, but i didn't have a suitable washer or spacer in that size, so i chose the lock washer that could stretch for the larger size.
the question i still have though, is the wiring diagram for my existing alternator, as the online books give me a very questionable wiring diagram. my current setup has an amp gage, while the alt i picked up (and all i'm aware of for similar applications) are for idiot lights, is how to connect the amp gage that came with my van , or if i should look for a cluster that comes with an idiot light... if nothing else i can mount an aftermarket idiot light somewhere, as i did last time i installed one of these
I am surprised your 87 has a ammeter in it, but I have heard the vans could be different than the trucks. In 87 on the truck they went to a voltmeter, and my 89 diesel has a little light under the cluster that looks like a battery, which is the light in your diagram.
You will not be able to use the factory ammeter. It's driven by whats called a "shunt" in the original wiring, and since this alternator has more output, you cannot use the original wire running to the battery, you will have to run a larger one.
If you want to go to the trouble, you could probably pull the cluster and find a unused spot for a light. Or you can put one under the dash like you suggested. Just make sure the socket is plastic with two wires. You do not want to ground this light, both wires and the socket need to be above ground. You can see this in the diagram.
You will not be able to use the factory ammeter. It's driven by whats called a "shunt" in the original wiring, and since this alternator has more output, you cannot use the original wire running to the battery, you will have to run a larger one.
If you want to go to the trouble, you could probably pull the cluster and find a unused spot for a light. Or you can put one under the dash like you suggested. Just make sure the socket is plastic with two wires. You do not want to ground this light, both wires and the socket need to be above ground. You can see this in the diagram.
the vans lagged a few years behind on technology. it has glass fuses not blade fuses, no electronics at all other than the aftermarket radio, etc. pickups had blade fuses in 1980, or maybe earlier.
anyway, thanks for the insight on wiring, i'll look for a cluster with an idiot light, and if i don't find one, i might "borrow" the seatbelt reminder light and use its position. or how hard is it to remove the gage from my cluster and put an idiot light in its place... may as well look at all my options here, as everything works on mine right now.
for wiring it up fresh, i'm familiar with doing so, as i did this upgrade in a friend's 68, and in doing it found the diagram showed a resistor in parallel with the idiot light, which we bought at radio hack, along with a small light socket, and soldered them together, only later to learn that the resistor is only there to keep it charging in the event the bulb burns out.
the newer wiring diagrams are very clear and easy to understand, so that side is easy, it was the hope of using my existing gage that i was unsure about.
thanks for the help
anyway, thanks for the insight on wiring, i'll look for a cluster with an idiot light, and if i don't find one, i might "borrow" the seatbelt reminder light and use its position. or how hard is it to remove the gage from my cluster and put an idiot light in its place... may as well look at all my options here, as everything works on mine right now.
for wiring it up fresh, i'm familiar with doing so, as i did this upgrade in a friend's 68, and in doing it found the diagram showed a resistor in parallel with the idiot light, which we bought at radio hack, along with a small light socket, and soldered them together, only later to learn that the resistor is only there to keep it charging in the event the bulb burns out.
the newer wiring diagrams are very clear and easy to understand, so that side is easy, it was the hope of using my existing gage that i was unsure about.
thanks for the help
update: i got around to installing it today and thought i'd post about it for anyone else looking into the swap. some of this may be repetitive for those of you who have been keeping up on this thread
my alternator came from a 94 taurus 3.0, and had been rebuilt in 09, which is a large part of why i chose this one.
i chose to reclock the unit to put the connectors in a better place for me. many people have this hard because their alternators are many years old, but at just 3 years old, this one was easy.
the pulley i used was a twin v-belt pulley from a 1980ish dodge truck. thickness at the mounting surface is only about 1/4". for clearance against the alternator body, i had to shim the pulley forward a little, for which i used a 5/8 lock washer. the shaft is slightly larger than that, but the washer stretched to fit. the shaft of the serpentine belt alternator isn't long enough for the ford 2-v pulley, and a single-v pulley isn't recommended for this high of an output.
mounting the unit was a direct bolt up, with the small exception that the original unit had a threaded hole at the adjusting bolt, and the replacement had a smooth hole, so i had to use a nut.
for wiring, the stock alt had 2 plugs, one of which had 2 10-ga wires to the battery (also controls gage) and a smaller wire labeled "Stator". the second plug also had 3 wires, labeled "A" "S" "I". the replacement had a single stud for the wire to the battery, to which i attached a 2ga wire, though 4 would have been enough. it also had the 3 wire plug i just mentioned, and it was actually the same plug even with the different generation of alternator. but my original didn't have an idiot light, and thus didn't have a wire in the "I" position, so i decided to replace the pigtail. the wire on the "A" terminal is always hot, the wire on the "S" terminal (OEM) is switched hot, but on the 3g is connected to the stator through a short wire. the "I" terminal is for the idiot light. i took the wire that had been on the "S" terminal, ran it to the dashboard where i installed an idiot light, and ran it back to the "I" terminal of the alternator.
for the idiot light, i looked at many places on the dash, and finally decided to drill a hole in the top of the cluster, right above the ammeter, and installed the light in this hole. my light was a small red light, for a 9/32" mounting hole, purchased at radio shack. the lens is cylindrical and extends about 1/4" beyond the mounting surface, which i expected to give good visibility from the side (as its viewed where i have it installed), but i found that the light is more directional than i expected. even so, its plenty visible, and i'm VERY responsive to any red light appearing on my dashboard, but thats a story for another time
note that the wiring diagrams for the donor car show a resistor in parallel with the idiot light. i seem to remember the resistance was specified on the diagram for a 97 (first time i did this swap), so that time i bought a 5-pack of resistors in the closest size i could find (somewhere around 500 ohm IIRC). so i did connect one in parallel with my light. note that its only purpose is to keep the circuit energized in the event the bulb burns out - and my bulb is labeled for 10000 hours, so i doubt it'll ever be necessary
my alternator came from a 94 taurus 3.0, and had been rebuilt in 09, which is a large part of why i chose this one.
i chose to reclock the unit to put the connectors in a better place for me. many people have this hard because their alternators are many years old, but at just 3 years old, this one was easy.
the pulley i used was a twin v-belt pulley from a 1980ish dodge truck. thickness at the mounting surface is only about 1/4". for clearance against the alternator body, i had to shim the pulley forward a little, for which i used a 5/8 lock washer. the shaft is slightly larger than that, but the washer stretched to fit. the shaft of the serpentine belt alternator isn't long enough for the ford 2-v pulley, and a single-v pulley isn't recommended for this high of an output.
mounting the unit was a direct bolt up, with the small exception that the original unit had a threaded hole at the adjusting bolt, and the replacement had a smooth hole, so i had to use a nut.
for wiring, the stock alt had 2 plugs, one of which had 2 10-ga wires to the battery (also controls gage) and a smaller wire labeled "Stator". the second plug also had 3 wires, labeled "A" "S" "I". the replacement had a single stud for the wire to the battery, to which i attached a 2ga wire, though 4 would have been enough. it also had the 3 wire plug i just mentioned, and it was actually the same plug even with the different generation of alternator. but my original didn't have an idiot light, and thus didn't have a wire in the "I" position, so i decided to replace the pigtail. the wire on the "A" terminal is always hot, the wire on the "S" terminal (OEM) is switched hot, but on the 3g is connected to the stator through a short wire. the "I" terminal is for the idiot light. i took the wire that had been on the "S" terminal, ran it to the dashboard where i installed an idiot light, and ran it back to the "I" terminal of the alternator.
for the idiot light, i looked at many places on the dash, and finally decided to drill a hole in the top of the cluster, right above the ammeter, and installed the light in this hole. my light was a small red light, for a 9/32" mounting hole, purchased at radio shack. the lens is cylindrical and extends about 1/4" beyond the mounting surface, which i expected to give good visibility from the side (as its viewed where i have it installed), but i found that the light is more directional than i expected. even so, its plenty visible, and i'm VERY responsive to any red light appearing on my dashboard, but thats a story for another time
note that the wiring diagrams for the donor car show a resistor in parallel with the idiot light. i seem to remember the resistance was specified on the diagram for a 97 (first time i did this swap), so that time i bought a 5-pack of resistors in the closest size i could find (somewhere around 500 ohm IIRC). so i did connect one in parallel with my light. note that its only purpose is to keep the circuit energized in the event the bulb burns out - and my bulb is labeled for 10000 hours, so i doubt it'll ever be necessary
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