Need help converting a 400M.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 24,552
Likes: 74
From: Creedmoor, North Carolina
I've had several 351Ms, a few 400Ms and a bunch of FEs. The 360 is a good torque engine that could stand some improvement. There are lots of parts and help available for any FE. I suggest that you sell the 400M to someone that needs it and do a few mods to the FE or even pick up a FE powered Ford or Mercury sedan and take that engine for your truck. You should be able to find a 390 or a 410 engine and with a lot of luck maybe even a 428. Good luck with your project.
John
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 787
From: Simi Valley, CA
As you say, 428's are far more common, cuz they were installed in myriad 1966/70 Ford/Mercury Passenger Cars.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
I keep trying the lotto and haven't cashed 1 ticket for any amount in the last 10 years. 
I did pick up a 428 block and parts about a year go just for kicks and now I just want to find a home for it. My project plans changed so it's gotta go.
I have seen old Mercurys and Galaxys every once in a while on C/L and they might make a good donor engine. You have to know the engine ID code on the VIN tag as well as having a pretty good idea of what to look at to ID the engine. People sell a lot of nice "junk" that have no idea what they are getting rid of. That's good for some of us, at least.
I did pick up a 428 block and parts about a year go just for kicks and now I just want to find a home for it. My project plans changed so it's gotta go.
I have seen old Mercurys and Galaxys every once in a while on C/L and they might make a good donor engine. You have to know the engine ID code on the VIN tag as well as having a pretty good idea of what to look at to ID the engine. People sell a lot of nice "junk" that have no idea what they are getting rid of. That's good for some of us, at least.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 787
From: Simi Valley, CA
1960/79 Passenger Cars: The engine code is the 5th digit of the VIN. FoMoCo used several different codes for 390 & 428 engines.
The VIN is found on the Warranty Plate thru 1979. 1968 and later Passenger Cars have a VIN tag installed on the left corner of the dash, visible thru the windshield.
1970 and later Passenger Cars also have the Safety Standards Certification Label, usually glued to the B piller below the striker plate. Has the VIN, production date and other jazz printed on it.
The VIN is found on the Warranty Plate thru 1979. 1968 and later Passenger Cars have a VIN tag installed on the left corner of the dash, visible thru the windshield.
1970 and later Passenger Cars also have the Safety Standards Certification Label, usually glued to the B piller below the striker plate. Has the VIN, production date and other jazz printed on it.
New User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
I did this swap in my 1969 F250 Highboy. It was an easy swap, just needed the engine perches that bolt to the frame rails and the truck motor mounts for the 351M / 400 block. I took my perches and mounts from a junkyard 1979 Bronco. Had to drill two new bolt holes for the perches. I used the original rear bolt holes from the old perches to locate the new perch. Drilled two new holes for the front of the perches and inside the frame rail I moved a metal brace forward to match the new bolt holes. I did this a few months ago, and remember being surprised at how easy it all was.
The 351M / 400 is a good motor. In these old trucks they are easy to mod for nice power and torque. I have owned three of these motors and after running them hard and doing some good wheeling, I cannot say anything bad about them. Good luck with the swap.
The 351M / 400 is a good motor. In these old trucks they are easy to mod for nice power and torque. I have owned three of these motors and after running them hard and doing some good wheeling, I cannot say anything bad about them. Good luck with the swap.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: South Dakota
I've had several 351Ms, a few 400Ms and a bunch of FEs. The 360 is a good torque engine that could stand some improvement. There are lots of parts and help available for any FE. I suggest that you sell the 400M to someone that needs it and do a few mods to the FE or even pick up a FE powered Ford or Mercury sedan and take that engine for your truck. You should be able to find a 390 or a 410 engine and with a lot of luck maybe even a 428. Good luck with your project.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
There was a 428 industrial engine that was talked about here a few months ago. I think the seller was in Idaho but, the info on the engine would make it worth a trip. I think it was a ski lift or tow motor that was run on natutal gas. I'm pretty sure it was listed on C/L. I'll see if I can find the thread. You would be much better off sticking to the same type of engine unless you have a lot of mechanical experience.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,760
Likes: 8
From: Gadsden Purchase
1) Are there any oiling mods for the 351m/400's like there is for the FE's?
2) The typical 351m/400 was made smogged down to hell, so calling them
boat anchors is unfair until -after- -you've- tried waking one up with some
aftermarket parts and compression increase. Never been there and done
that and sure as heck don't ever plan to either, but still... ? ;) LOL
3) The 360FE has a bad reputation for low power yet the 352FE's 4 barrel
version doesn't. See that I mean? ;)
4) Anyway, what about the 351m/400's reputation for bad oiling?
Is it deserved?
Can it be fixed?
Alvin in AZ
2) The typical 351m/400 was made smogged down to hell, so calling them
boat anchors is unfair until -after- -you've- tried waking one up with some
aftermarket parts and compression increase. Never been there and done
that and sure as heck don't ever plan to either, but still... ? ;) LOL
3) The 360FE has a bad reputation for low power yet the 352FE's 4 barrel
version doesn't. See that I mean? ;)
4) Anyway, what about the 351m/400's reputation for bad oiling?
Is it deserved?
Can it be fixed?
Alvin in AZ
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Brett Foote
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 1
From: Butler, IN
Got this from the 351/400 forum. It tells of some of the problems with the 400 such as core shift, cracks in the lifter valley, oiling problems, etc. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-and-400s.html
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,519
Likes: 2,826
1) Are there any oiling mods for the 351m/400's like there is for the FE's?
2) The typical 351m/400 was made smogged down to hell, so calling them
boat anchors is unfair until -after- -you've- tried waking one up with some
aftermarket parts and compression increase. Never been there and done
that and sure as heck don't ever plan to either, but still... ?
LOL
3) The 360FE has a bad reputation for low power yet the 352FE's 4 barrel
version doesn't. See that I mean?
4) Anyway, what about the 351m/400's reputation for bad oiling?
Is it deserved?
Can it be fixed?
Alvin in AZ
2) The typical 351m/400 was made smogged down to hell, so calling them
boat anchors is unfair until -after- -you've- tried waking one up with some
aftermarket parts and compression increase. Never been there and done
that and sure as heck don't ever plan to either, but still... ?
LOL3) The 360FE has a bad reputation for low power yet the 352FE's 4 barrel
version doesn't. See that I mean?
4) Anyway, what about the 351m/400's reputation for bad oiling?
Is it deserved?
Can it be fixed?
Alvin in AZ
2: Note the reference to "stock" with respect to boat anchor usage
3: 352 4bbl motors were pre-smog, 10:1 CR, and had cams with lobes, not slightly oblong circles....
4: not so much/yes if you think you need to--scroll down here regarding oiling:
Rumors & Myths
IMO the OP should stick with the FE. If he must change to a 400, he can expect less performance IF he stays with a stock engine.
If he doesn't want "turd on a stick" status:
351M/400 Performance Build Up
Bubba's M-Block Ford V8 Workshop
M-Block 351M/400 Parts Reference
TMeyer, Inc. Precision Automotive Machining
Some of that is the same site, just another link to it.
Minimum for the 400:
--clean up, bearings, the usual rebuild stuff
--pistons with 9:1 CR
--an rv cam.
Even with the stock 2bbl and exhaust manifolds (dual or larger single exhaust) that combo would give him 50% more power than stock.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
IMO the reason for most to attempt a swap of this kind is economical ie; He needs an engine for his truck and he has this one. So now the question is how to make the swap at a cost that would be satisfactory and have better performance than the original 360 provided. I don't think there is an easy answer to the problem as the "M" engines were produced for replacements of the higher emission producing FEs and 429/460 engtines.
To get power and reliability from any "M" engine he will have to do a custom build that will address the oiling and power issues and that will cost some bucks. He will then have to contend with issues regarding the cooling system, transmission, engine mounts and the exhaust system.
On the other hand his 360 needs a rebuild or a basic used FE donor engine and there are still a few out there that will get the truck up and moving that would give him time to build his engine. If he goes with a used FE his issues with the cooling system, motor mounts and exhaust are resolved and he can concentrate on the FE rebuild, saving a bunch of money, time and aggravation.
I think his best option is to stick with the FE engine family.
To get power and reliability from any "M" engine he will have to do a custom build that will address the oiling and power issues and that will cost some bucks. He will then have to contend with issues regarding the cooling system, transmission, engine mounts and the exhaust system.
On the other hand his 360 needs a rebuild or a basic used FE donor engine and there are still a few out there that will get the truck up and moving that would give him time to build his engine. If he goes with a used FE his issues with the cooling system, motor mounts and exhaust are resolved and he can concentrate on the FE rebuild, saving a bunch of money, time and aggravation.
I think his best option is to stick with the FE engine family.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 1
From: Butler, IN
IMO the reason for most to attempt a swap of this kind is economical ie; He needs an engine for his truck and he has this one. So now the question is how to make the swap at a cost that would be satisfactory and have better performance than the original 360 provided. I don't think there is an easy answer to the problem as the "M" engines were produced for replacements of the higher emission producing FEs and 429/460 engines.
To get power and reliability from any "M" engine he will have to do a custom build that will address the oiling and power issues and that will cost some bucks. He will then have to contend with issues regarding the cooling system, transmission, engine mounts and the exhaust system.
On the other hand his 360 needs a rebuild or a basic used FE donor engine and there are still a few out there that will get the truck up and moving that would give him time to build his engine. If he goes with a used FE his issues with the cooling system, motor mounts and exhaust are resolved and he can concentrate on the FE rebuild, saving a bunch of money, time and aggravation.
I think his best option is to stick with the FE engine family.
To get power and reliability from any "M" engine he will have to do a custom build that will address the oiling and power issues and that will cost some bucks. He will then have to contend with issues regarding the cooling system, transmission, engine mounts and the exhaust system.
On the other hand his 360 needs a rebuild or a basic used FE donor engine and there are still a few out there that will get the truck up and moving that would give him time to build his engine. If he goes with a used FE his issues with the cooling system, motor mounts and exhaust are resolved and he can concentrate on the FE rebuild, saving a bunch of money, time and aggravation.
I think his best option is to stick with the FE engine family.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,760
Likes: 8
From: Gadsden Purchase
Thanks for the links 85e, I read 'em all and found pretty much what
I figured I'd find, low compression and retarded cam timing gave the
351m/400's a bad reputation.
Yeah but. :)
FE's and ZF don't mix. :/
Yeah they make an adapter plate, ever price one? ;)
The price a couple years ago was plumb ridiculous.
So 400+ZF?
Or 360/390FE+T18/NP435?
Or 300i6+ZF?
I'm guessing a junk yard factory-built 300i6 is a dog too until it gets a
new cam and upped compression etc?
I advanced the cam timing 4 degrees on my '91 351w+ZF and it made
it much more "drivable" and less "pipey". ...and better gas mileage! :)
When these engine were first "smogged down" the gas mileage went
to hell. The big-new-promise was the catalytic converters to fix that.
They didn't, it was mostly in the cam timing from the timing gears and
they didn't fix that, but it's a cheap easy fix. :)
Alvin in AZ
I figured I'd find, low compression and retarded cam timing gave the
351m/400's a bad reputation.
Yeah but. :)
FE's and ZF don't mix. :/
Yeah they make an adapter plate, ever price one? ;)
The price a couple years ago was plumb ridiculous.
So 400+ZF?
Or 360/390FE+T18/NP435?
Or 300i6+ZF?
I'm guessing a junk yard factory-built 300i6 is a dog too until it gets a
new cam and upped compression etc?
I advanced the cam timing 4 degrees on my '91 351w+ZF and it made
it much more "drivable" and less "pipey". ...and better gas mileage! :)
When these engine were first "smogged down" the gas mileage went
to hell. The big-new-promise was the catalytic converters to fix that.
They didn't, it was mostly in the cam timing from the timing gears and
they didn't fix that, but it's a cheap easy fix. :)
Alvin in AZ
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 2
From: wyoming
400 ford to zf tranny photos.
hey got some photos of 400 ford to zf tranny. its not completed totally but critical photos to make work. Do's and don'ts i have learned along the way. will have motor mounts built this weekend, merry christmas to me. any question drop a message. its not a simple job but doable so you have to ask yourself about what you have to get the job done and be safe. things to consider.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
hey got some photos of 400 ford to zf tranny. its not completed totally but critical photos to make work. Do's and don'ts i have learned along the way. will have motor mounts built this weekend, merry christmas to me. any question drop a message. its not a simple job but doable so you have to ask yourself about what you have to get the job done and be safe. things to consider.
Merry Christmas to you and all of FTE
.