Hello all! Ive been a lurker here on these forums for quite a few months, even before i purchased my F250, needless to say im a ford lover... BUT i don't know a thing about them or trucks/cars in general... so yea for those of you reading were off to a rough start already... With that said... if anyone out there has enough patience to try and help me, it would be greatly appreciated.. Enough small talk here we go.

Situation: Purchased my 1983 F250 V6 4cycle a month ago, kinda rough shape.. Was unaware she needed the "rings" around the gas tank hose tightened, therefore the gas leaked out. Me being unaware of the gas leakage, I Went to take a load of scrap to the yard and she broke down halfway there. Had no idea it was the gas so i kept trying to start her. Few trys later i see smoke coming from the engine, i jump out the truck and pop the hood. The Solenoid was on fire and two wires connecting to it were fried. Put some gas in her and she started right up enough for me to take her home. The next 2 days she ran fine. She sat for 2-3 days, tried to start her which she started right up, but when i threw her into 2nd and was taking off, i got about 2 feet and she died. I took keys out and put them back in and tried to start, no power at all! popped the hood and saw one of the cable wires (from battery going to solenoid) was fried in half. Today i went and purchased a new battery cable, and a new solenoid. Installed them both and was connecting the battery cables back, hooked up the positive first no problems, but then when i touched the negative cable with the battery, it was sending sparks and the truck tried to start.. had a friend with me so they jumped in the truck and tried to put the keys in the ignition and then while i put the negative back to the battery(yea i know) they tried to turn the ignition and then turn the truck off to stop from trying to start.. didn't work. As of right now im searching on the forums and google to try to get some of the terms down and get a little more knowledge.. Honestly.. this is my first truck and ive been trying to take initiative to learn how to work on them, or just for general automotive knowledge..
Sorry for the book i just wrote^^, just trying to be as descriptive as possible. ANY help is appreciate. thanks!

John B.

 

Your whole situation went downhill when you overheated the starter and the cables by cranking it too much. You need to crank it no more than 10 seconds, and then let it rest another 20-30 seconds before cranking again.

You did the right thing in replacing the damaged cables, but it sounds to me like you have put the wires on the solenoid in the wrong location.

 

Thanks so much for the reply, greatly appreciated. I went back out after reading your information and tried switching the cables that ran from the starter to the solenoid, the cable that ran from the battery to the solenoid, the one wire that connects to the regulator?(3-4 wires with one able to connect to silver screw of the solenoid/inner bolts) and 1 more wire that connected to the same side as the cable coming from the battery. Still doing the same thing. As from the pictures i've looked at online looks like the wiring is correct? maybe missing some? ill try to switch the wires around a different way i haven't tried. Thanks again for your reply!
John B.

 

Welcome to FTE!

If the wiring is correct, it sounds like the new solenoid is bad right out of the box.

From Franklin2's images:



There is aa red/blue-stripe wire that runs from the ignition switch in the cab to the #5 connection on the solenoid; when that solenoid connection is energized, it activates an electromagnet inside the solenoid that connects together the two fat cables (3 & 6).

Remove that small red/blue-stripe wire and try to connect the battery again; if it still throws sparks and activates the starter motor, that solenoid is bad (again, assuming all other wiring is correct).

 

And, you won't be the first by any stretch to get a bad one out of the box. Some guys have gotten several in a row. Most of us are hoarding the original ones that came on the truck or paying big bucks to get a FoMoCo one. Just go do a search on solenoid to find the fun others have had.

 

I've got about 3 motorcraft solenoids from wrecker specials just for this purpose.

As a general rule, the solenoid has three or four lugs, two large lugs for the battery and the other for the starter cable, then a smaller one for the ignition switch circut marked with a "S" and one marked with a "I" that is not used.

It shouldn't matter (For this problem) if the wires are reversed at the large lugs as both lugs are positive and the circut is open and blocks power flow normally.
With the problem you are having, I agree with CTUBUTIS that it's defective and stuck closed out of the box, or the starting circut is powered when it shouldn't.

You shouldn't hook your solenoid large lugs up backwards as it will shorten the life of the unit, but it shouldn't cause your problem in this case.

 

ctubutis: Thanks for the welcome! and thanks for taking the time to share that chart, very much appreciated. My setup looks kinda like this below, will update tomorrow when i get to look again. But i have a pretty good idea of what it is now that i think of it. I will try this method and if it doesn't work my next step is to return solenoid. Thanks again for your help i'll keep you posted.

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Gary Lewis: Thanks for your reply, and i find that pretty weird how that would happen, but I guess thats why everyone sold came with a warranty. And it also makes me feel a little better hah. My goal is to be able to eventually work on Ford trucks mainly but also more general knowledge and advanced for automobiles, seems alot more important to me nowadays, plus I wana be able to work on my f350 when i get her in a year or so.

81-F-150-Explorer: Thanks for taking time to reply. I understand; I was thinking the same thing while going over all options.. But I will def. try those steps tomorrow as soon as i get off work in the A.M, Would try now and im tempted but need my 3 hours of sleep for this 2am shift .

Will Keep you guys posted in the A.M, like i said im pretty sure i have the answer... I'll let you know tomorrow, and if it is what i think it is wow.. just wow hah. Thanks again guys for the time and support.
John B.

 

Actually there is some polarity involved because the 'I' terminal and the starter output are connected electrically.

The Starter cable is the only thing that should be connected to the large output stud.
Everything else should be connected, with the battery + to the other stud.

If your truck (like most) doesn't use the 'I' terminal, then it shouldn't matter.
But there is a difference.

 

ArdwrknTrk: Thanks for reply; i switched some of the wiring around to try different ways but still same outcome, and returned them back to how i originally had them setup, ^the way you posted.

Ctubutis: My fault, i was thinking the same thing, but on my computer you could click on the picture and it would open it up in a bigger link so thats why i left it that way. May be different for others? Went out and checked it just now after work, and it does look just like your diagram.. guess off to the store to try a new solenoid? I may try my old solenoid first then go back to the store?? either way im stuck with a new solenoid, but rather have spent 15$ on that instead of more on something else, plus have been told it needed a new one anyways since the smoke. Oh and last night when i read your post i was lost so i didn't disconnect the #5 wire and try it like that, but i will now.

Update: So.. My F250 does not have E-brake, so when i park her up i put her in 2nd gear and shut her off, i was told to try and throw her into neutral then connect the cable from the starter to the negative battery connect. I was excited all morning at work thinking "yes of course, if i left her in 2nd and tried to connect it thats why shes trying to start up cause she's in 2nd!". Yea... no. So from here next step is maybe trying old solenoid.. in the first place it was just the battery cable that needed to be replaced, but if the old solenoid works ill just exchange the new one and have a extra working solenoid for back up. After solenoid step, maybe ill watch more videos and see if i can do some wiring work..?

NEW NEW update: ALRIGHT! so, Ctubutis, i tried what you recommended about red striped wire to check the solenoid, turns out the new solenoid was?/is bad. I put the old on one just to see what it would do and it turns out the engine didn't try to crank or shock me. Now, i didn't put any washers between the connections; and the cables that connect to the end receivers; i didn't screw them in all the way(22 degrees outside no gloves and a steel monkey wrench) so they were only being touched by metal on one side of the cables if that makes sense.. i attached the negative cable with no problem, but when i go to crank the car, she turns but sounds slowww. Barely turning, but not starting. Now, im thinking, A) It's Cold as ish outside. B) May be not enough grounded power from the wires since there not correctly grounded. Will go back outside after 2-3 hours of sleep to go find the correct nuts and washers for the old solenoid.

 

Good plan. If the old solenoid was working then I'd go back to it. I've been totally amazed at how many guys have gotten bad solenoids in the 18 months or so I've been on this forum. Seems they'll either be bad straight out of the box or weld themselves shut after a couple of uses. Just mind-boggling.

 

http://postimage.org/image/jtav595ad/


Gary Lewis: Yea that's crazy to me, never thought buying a brand new part from the store would have so many defects for the same part nation wide or whatnot.. Really is mind boggling.

 

The insides of the solenoids are pretty simple; an electromagnet (activated by applying power to the S (#5) terminal) connects together the two big cables via a copper washer-like contact:



That "washer" rotates, thereby spreading the wear across the entire surface (and making it last longer).

But the contacts nevertheless eventually burn up, reducing current-carrying capacity.

I saw your picture of the wiring on the starter side of the solenoid, I've always put the washer directly prior to the nut (which is on top of the cable eyelet, which slides onto the solenoid).

Yes, I can also click on the image(s) to get a larger version and you're right, it's friendlier to those of us on dial-up to initially use smaller images that can be enlarged if desired.

I shall revert your post to again use the smaller, clickable image; and, one of these days, I'll make smaller images of the starter solenoid internals.

 

Ctubutis: Thanks so much for all your help and support. I apologize about the picture and link, I know most forums do not like posting of outside links etc. I'm going out to take a look at her now, and tighten the screws so the ground is good. Hopefully this is it! I'll update. Thanks again for all the patience and help guys.

John B.

 

No need to apologize or offer thanks, just help somebody else here when you can.

Given that only Supporters can directly attach files to posts, FTE actually encourages using image-hosting sites....

User Gallery & Picture Display Help - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

 

Correct, however, none of the 1980/1986 used the I terminal from the factory. That's something they dropped in 1979.