The Oct., BS thread
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,499
Likes: 10
From: Sterling Heights,Mi
One more for you, but I cannot give you what is actually taught in the class.
Violent Crime Down - Again!
The Michigan State Police reported today that violent crime is down 5% from 2002 to 2003 Michigan. Obviously passing Concealed Pistol Licensing reform in 2000 did not increase crime as the anti gun people predicted.
This follows a national trend in every right to carry state and confirms studies by Professor John Lott that crime decreases when right to carry laws are passed.
Go to Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONCEALED PISTOL LICENSE LAW CHANGES IN 2003
On July 1, 2003, some significant changes in the Concealed Pistol License Law went into effect. Some of these changes are improvements for the Concealed Pistol License ("CPL") holder; others are definite steps backwards. CPL holders must know about these changes and comply with them. The trouble is, if you took the required gun safety training before July 1, 2003, the legal discussion section of that training will not have discussed these changes. However, for CPL holders, even more than the average citizen, ignorance of the law is no excuse. That′s the case, even as the average law enforcement officer may not be aware of changes in the law.
In addition, there are still a few people out there who have CPLs that predate the "shall issue" CPLs that became available in July 2001. Those who have the old white card (the one without the picture) need to be aware of all of the restrictions now placed on CPL holders. Even if someone holds the old white "unrestricted" license, all the restrictions in the new law apply to that CPL holder. That person still must understand the new restrictions * such as the new list of places a licensee cannot carry a concealed pistol.
This article highlights some of the changes in the law that went into effect in 2003. I′m not going to discuss all of the changes, just the ones that most affect the CPL holder.
I. Notifying a police officer "immediately" that you′re carrying a concealed pistol
One change addresses an ambiguity in the concealed pistol law. It makes clear that a CPL holder who is carrying a concealed pistol and is stopped by a police officer, must immediately inform that officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol. Prior to this amendment, the law had required disclosure of a concealed pistol, but had been unclear as to when the CPL holder had to inform the officer. Now, if you′re carrying a concealed pistol and you′re stopped by a police officer, the first thing you say should be that you have a concealed pistol license, and that you are carrying a concealed pistol. If you don′t, you could receive a ticket, a fine, lose your pistol, and lose your CPL for up to six months.
II. Carrying and displaying the CPL if you′re not carrying a concealed pistol
The new law also makes clear that if the CPL holder is not carrying a concealed pistol, he/she is not required to carry or produce the concealed pistol license upon the officer′s request. Previously, it was not clear whether the CPL holder had to display the license to the officer, even if he or she was not carrying a concealed pistol. Now, if you′re not carrying a concealed pistol, you needn′t carry the CPL * but it′s still a good idea to do so.
III. Extension of CPLs to five years.
Another issue that has arisen with the recent amendments of the law is the question of how long the old license is valid. For most of us, our licenses are good for three years, after which they must be renewed. Starting July 1, 2003, CPLs will be valid for five years. However that does NOT mean that those of us with the three year licenses can automatically tack another two years onto the license. Our licenses will still expire on the date shown on the license; that is, after three years. New and renewal licenses issued after July 1, 2003, will be good for five years. This is a dangerous trap; if your license expires and you′re caught carrying a concealed pistol, that′s not a civil infraction, or a misdemeanor * that′s a felony carrying a prison sentence of up to five years.
IV. Changes in places where a concealed pistol is prohibited
There is some good news and some bad news in all of this. The good news is that the list of places where CPL holders cannot carry their concealed pistols is a bit smaller now. Previously, a CPL holder could not carry a concealed pistol into any "bar, restaurant or lounge" where alcohol is served for consumption on the premises. That excluded a lot of restaurants that serve alcohol. However, that exclusion has been changed. A CPL holder now cannot carry a concealed pistol into "a bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises." As before, the owner and employees of such a place are permitted to carry on those premises.
What does this mean? It means that one can now carry into a restaurant that serves beer, wine or liquor with dinner. However, this new definition is somewhat vague, and also makes it difficult to decide whether a given establishment may or may not be prohibited. If a place is clearly a bar, and serves more alcohol than food, don′t carry a pistol there. Places like sports bars, pool halls, or taverns that serve perhaps as much food as alcohol might or might not be permissible. However, if it turns out you′re carrying in a prohibited place, don′t expect much sympathy from a judge. If you′re not sure if a place is legal, leave the hardware in the car.
You can leave it in the car, because another part of the new law makes clear that a CPL holder can carry a concealed pistol in the parking lots of all the places where a concealed pistol is prohibited * hospitals, stadiums, day care centers, schools, etc. So even if you can′t carry your concealed pistol into a hospital when visiting your sick relative, you can carry it in your car, and leave it secured in the car while it′s in the hospital′s parking lot.
The law also now makes clear that a CPL holder who is hired as a security guard to protect a prohibited place is allowed to carry a concealed pistol in the course of his or her duty as a security guard. Moreover, private investigators, private detectives, and retired police officers are now allowed to carry a concealed pistol in all of the statutorily defined prohibited places.
V. Changes in the application process
Those who are applying for or renewing their CPLs after July 1, 2003 need to be aware of some changes in the application process. For one thing, the cost is now a single fee of $105, paid to the county clerk, but which covers everything, including fingerprinting. (If you have your local police department take your fingerprints, rather than your county sheriff, the local department can charge an additional $15.)
Gun boards now have 45 days after receiving the fingerprint report from the state police, instead of the oft-ignored 30 days, in which to grant or deny an applicant a CPL. (Hopefully, the additional time means that more county gun boards will make an effort to comply with the law.) In addition, if a decision is not made within 60 days, the gun board is supposed to grant a temporary concealed pistol license; however, I′m aware of only one county that is doing this.
Gun boards now have more authority to go snooping for evidence of unfitness for a CPL. The law allows gun boards more latitude to review medical records for evidence of mental illness or other factor that might disqualify an applicant for a CPL. It is yet to be seen how this will work, but preliminary indications are that gun boards are scrutinizing records of medical treatment, psychological counseling, even grief counseling or marriage counseling. If you′ve ever undergone anything like this, be prepared to discuss it with the Board.
When you get your new concealed pistol license, it′ll be smaller than the previously issued license. The new licenses will be the same size as a driver′s license, and will fit more easily in wallet or purse.
VI. Qualification for a CPL
One of the biggest changes is an expansion of the pool of residents eligible to receive a concealed pistol license. Previously, any person who was convicted of any misdemeanor was ineligible for a CPL for three years from the date of conviction, except for persons convicted of the few misdemeanors that would disqualify him or her for eight years. A lot of people who were issued tickets, and paid them, thinking they were simple civil infractions * such a a ticket for operating a boat with an expired tag, or driving with expired insurance * ended up having their CPLs suspended, or not being eligible for a CPL for three years.
As of July, only persons convicted of a specific list of misdemeanors are ineligible for a CPL for three years. The list includes:
a. Operating a Motor Vehicle Under the Influence of Liquor
b. Refusal of a Commercial Driver to Submit to a Chemical Test
c. Negligently Providing False Certification of Breath Alcohol Interlock Device
d. Intentionally Circumventing Breath Alcohol Interlock Device
e. Operating a Commercial Vehicle with Unlawful Blood Alcohol Level (.04 BAC)
f. Operating an Aircraft Under the Influence of Liquor
h. Operating an Off Road Vehicle Under the Influence of Liquor
i. Operating an Off Road Vehicle Having Consumed a Controlled Substance
j. Operating a Snowmobile Under the Influence of Liquor
k. Any Controlled Substance Code Violation
l. Operating a Locomotive Under the Influence of Liquor
m. Disorderly Conduct
n. Embezzlement
o. False Pretenses
p. Larceny
q. Retail Fraud
r. Larceny of a Vacant Building
s. Larceny by Conversion
t. Defrauding a Lessor (Landlord)
u. Malicious Destruction of Property
v. Malicious Destruction of Real Property
x. Failure to Obey Police Direction
y. Receiving and Concealing Stolen Property
z. Malicious Use of Telephone
In addition, there have been additions to the list of misdemeanors that result in an eight year CPL disqualification. The new "eight year misdemeanors" are:
aa. Failure to Stop at an Injury Accident
ab. Operating a Commercial Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor
ac. Operating an Aircraft with an Unlawful Blood Alcohol Level, 2d Offense
ad. Operating Off Road Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor, 2d Offense
ae. Operating Snowmobile under the Influence of Liquor, 2d Offense
af. Operating Water Vessel under the Influence of Liquor
ag. Entering Without Breaking
ah. Indecent Exposure
ai. For the entire list of "eight year misdemeanors" see the Instructions page of an application for a concealed pistol license.
1. Administrative details
The new law clarifies some administrative details that were not clearly set out in prior law. The new law makes clear that a CPL holder who moves from one county in Michigan to another county in Michigan, takes their CPL with them. You need not re-apply in the new county until you renew your CPL. Then, of course, you must apply in the county in which you then live.
The new law also makes clear that a lost CPL can be replaced for $10.00.
The new law also clarifies that, if a gun board suspends or revokes a person′s CPL, that person must surrender their CPL back to the gun board.
For more details on the changes in the concealed pistol law, consider sitting through at least the legal lecture of a qualified pistol safety training program. Many instructors will allow you to sit in on the legal lecture at no charge, or at least at a price less than the entire training program.
Violent Crime Down - Again!
The Michigan State Police reported today that violent crime is down 5% from 2002 to 2003 Michigan. Obviously passing Concealed Pistol Licensing reform in 2000 did not increase crime as the anti gun people predicted.
This follows a national trend in every right to carry state and confirms studies by Professor John Lott that crime decreases when right to carry laws are passed.
Go to Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONCEALED PISTOL LICENSE LAW CHANGES IN 2003
On July 1, 2003, some significant changes in the Concealed Pistol License Law went into effect. Some of these changes are improvements for the Concealed Pistol License ("CPL") holder; others are definite steps backwards. CPL holders must know about these changes and comply with them. The trouble is, if you took the required gun safety training before July 1, 2003, the legal discussion section of that training will not have discussed these changes. However, for CPL holders, even more than the average citizen, ignorance of the law is no excuse. That′s the case, even as the average law enforcement officer may not be aware of changes in the law.
In addition, there are still a few people out there who have CPLs that predate the "shall issue" CPLs that became available in July 2001. Those who have the old white card (the one without the picture) need to be aware of all of the restrictions now placed on CPL holders. Even if someone holds the old white "unrestricted" license, all the restrictions in the new law apply to that CPL holder. That person still must understand the new restrictions * such as the new list of places a licensee cannot carry a concealed pistol.
This article highlights some of the changes in the law that went into effect in 2003. I′m not going to discuss all of the changes, just the ones that most affect the CPL holder.
I. Notifying a police officer "immediately" that you′re carrying a concealed pistol
One change addresses an ambiguity in the concealed pistol law. It makes clear that a CPL holder who is carrying a concealed pistol and is stopped by a police officer, must immediately inform that officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol. Prior to this amendment, the law had required disclosure of a concealed pistol, but had been unclear as to when the CPL holder had to inform the officer. Now, if you′re carrying a concealed pistol and you′re stopped by a police officer, the first thing you say should be that you have a concealed pistol license, and that you are carrying a concealed pistol. If you don′t, you could receive a ticket, a fine, lose your pistol, and lose your CPL for up to six months.
II. Carrying and displaying the CPL if you′re not carrying a concealed pistol
The new law also makes clear that if the CPL holder is not carrying a concealed pistol, he/she is not required to carry or produce the concealed pistol license upon the officer′s request. Previously, it was not clear whether the CPL holder had to display the license to the officer, even if he or she was not carrying a concealed pistol. Now, if you′re not carrying a concealed pistol, you needn′t carry the CPL * but it′s still a good idea to do so.
III. Extension of CPLs to five years.
Another issue that has arisen with the recent amendments of the law is the question of how long the old license is valid. For most of us, our licenses are good for three years, after which they must be renewed. Starting July 1, 2003, CPLs will be valid for five years. However that does NOT mean that those of us with the three year licenses can automatically tack another two years onto the license. Our licenses will still expire on the date shown on the license; that is, after three years. New and renewal licenses issued after July 1, 2003, will be good for five years. This is a dangerous trap; if your license expires and you′re caught carrying a concealed pistol, that′s not a civil infraction, or a misdemeanor * that′s a felony carrying a prison sentence of up to five years.
IV. Changes in places where a concealed pistol is prohibited
There is some good news and some bad news in all of this. The good news is that the list of places where CPL holders cannot carry their concealed pistols is a bit smaller now. Previously, a CPL holder could not carry a concealed pistol into any "bar, restaurant or lounge" where alcohol is served for consumption on the premises. That excluded a lot of restaurants that serve alcohol. However, that exclusion has been changed. A CPL holder now cannot carry a concealed pistol into "a bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises." As before, the owner and employees of such a place are permitted to carry on those premises.
What does this mean? It means that one can now carry into a restaurant that serves beer, wine or liquor with dinner. However, this new definition is somewhat vague, and also makes it difficult to decide whether a given establishment may or may not be prohibited. If a place is clearly a bar, and serves more alcohol than food, don′t carry a pistol there. Places like sports bars, pool halls, or taverns that serve perhaps as much food as alcohol might or might not be permissible. However, if it turns out you′re carrying in a prohibited place, don′t expect much sympathy from a judge. If you′re not sure if a place is legal, leave the hardware in the car.
You can leave it in the car, because another part of the new law makes clear that a CPL holder can carry a concealed pistol in the parking lots of all the places where a concealed pistol is prohibited * hospitals, stadiums, day care centers, schools, etc. So even if you can′t carry your concealed pistol into a hospital when visiting your sick relative, you can carry it in your car, and leave it secured in the car while it′s in the hospital′s parking lot.
The law also now makes clear that a CPL holder who is hired as a security guard to protect a prohibited place is allowed to carry a concealed pistol in the course of his or her duty as a security guard. Moreover, private investigators, private detectives, and retired police officers are now allowed to carry a concealed pistol in all of the statutorily defined prohibited places.
V. Changes in the application process
Those who are applying for or renewing their CPLs after July 1, 2003 need to be aware of some changes in the application process. For one thing, the cost is now a single fee of $105, paid to the county clerk, but which covers everything, including fingerprinting. (If you have your local police department take your fingerprints, rather than your county sheriff, the local department can charge an additional $15.)
Gun boards now have 45 days after receiving the fingerprint report from the state police, instead of the oft-ignored 30 days, in which to grant or deny an applicant a CPL. (Hopefully, the additional time means that more county gun boards will make an effort to comply with the law.) In addition, if a decision is not made within 60 days, the gun board is supposed to grant a temporary concealed pistol license; however, I′m aware of only one county that is doing this.
Gun boards now have more authority to go snooping for evidence of unfitness for a CPL. The law allows gun boards more latitude to review medical records for evidence of mental illness or other factor that might disqualify an applicant for a CPL. It is yet to be seen how this will work, but preliminary indications are that gun boards are scrutinizing records of medical treatment, psychological counseling, even grief counseling or marriage counseling. If you′ve ever undergone anything like this, be prepared to discuss it with the Board.
When you get your new concealed pistol license, it′ll be smaller than the previously issued license. The new licenses will be the same size as a driver′s license, and will fit more easily in wallet or purse.
VI. Qualification for a CPL
One of the biggest changes is an expansion of the pool of residents eligible to receive a concealed pistol license. Previously, any person who was convicted of any misdemeanor was ineligible for a CPL for three years from the date of conviction, except for persons convicted of the few misdemeanors that would disqualify him or her for eight years. A lot of people who were issued tickets, and paid them, thinking they were simple civil infractions * such a a ticket for operating a boat with an expired tag, or driving with expired insurance * ended up having their CPLs suspended, or not being eligible for a CPL for three years.
As of July, only persons convicted of a specific list of misdemeanors are ineligible for a CPL for three years. The list includes:
a. Operating a Motor Vehicle Under the Influence of Liquor
b. Refusal of a Commercial Driver to Submit to a Chemical Test
c. Negligently Providing False Certification of Breath Alcohol Interlock Device
d. Intentionally Circumventing Breath Alcohol Interlock Device
e. Operating a Commercial Vehicle with Unlawful Blood Alcohol Level (.04 BAC)
f. Operating an Aircraft Under the Influence of Liquor
h. Operating an Off Road Vehicle Under the Influence of Liquor
i. Operating an Off Road Vehicle Having Consumed a Controlled Substance
j. Operating a Snowmobile Under the Influence of Liquor
k. Any Controlled Substance Code Violation
l. Operating a Locomotive Under the Influence of Liquor
m. Disorderly Conduct
n. Embezzlement
o. False Pretenses
p. Larceny
q. Retail Fraud
r. Larceny of a Vacant Building
s. Larceny by Conversion
t. Defrauding a Lessor (Landlord)
u. Malicious Destruction of Property
v. Malicious Destruction of Real Property
x. Failure to Obey Police Direction
y. Receiving and Concealing Stolen Property
z. Malicious Use of Telephone
In addition, there have been additions to the list of misdemeanors that result in an eight year CPL disqualification. The new "eight year misdemeanors" are:
aa. Failure to Stop at an Injury Accident
ab. Operating a Commercial Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor
ac. Operating an Aircraft with an Unlawful Blood Alcohol Level, 2d Offense
ad. Operating Off Road Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor, 2d Offense
ae. Operating Snowmobile under the Influence of Liquor, 2d Offense
af. Operating Water Vessel under the Influence of Liquor
ag. Entering Without Breaking
ah. Indecent Exposure
ai. For the entire list of "eight year misdemeanors" see the Instructions page of an application for a concealed pistol license.
1. Administrative details
The new law clarifies some administrative details that were not clearly set out in prior law. The new law makes clear that a CPL holder who moves from one county in Michigan to another county in Michigan, takes their CPL with them. You need not re-apply in the new county until you renew your CPL. Then, of course, you must apply in the county in which you then live.
The new law also makes clear that a lost CPL can be replaced for $10.00.
The new law also clarifies that, if a gun board suspends or revokes a person′s CPL, that person must surrender their CPL back to the gun board.
For more details on the changes in the concealed pistol law, consider sitting through at least the legal lecture of a qualified pistol safety training program. Many instructors will allow you to sit in on the legal lecture at no charge, or at least at a price less than the entire training program.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,499
Likes: 10
From: Sterling Heights,Mi
LAID - Legally Armed In Detroit (Michigan CCW Classes): Michigan Concealed Pistol License Class: How Many Guns Can You Carry?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2011
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