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Trailer wheels getting real hot.

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Old Sep 1, 2011 | 04:21 PM
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Trailer wheels getting real hot.

Boat Trailer: 27' Trail Rite Tandem axel w/ surge drum brakes:

Hey everyone,

Got a question. I recently did a full brake and maintenance job on my tandem axel boat trailer, including new brake shoes, races, bearings (used Moray's grease), new tires and bled the brake lines.

The only thing that bothers me is that after taking a test run, my left rear rim gets pretty hot. Hotter than the others. Right rear gets fairly warm, but not that bad. Front two stay comfortable. I'm assuming that it's due to the brakes being applied to the drum and transferring the heat to the rim, but the left rear sooo much hotter than the others.

The brake adjuster gadget at the bottom of the drum is bottomed out, so there's no more room to bring the pads further away from the drum.

Is this sort of stuff normal break-in for new shoes?? A little drag maybe?? This was my first brake job on a trailer.

Thanks,
HD
 
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Old Sep 1, 2011 | 08:05 PM
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Lift each wheel off the ground and spin the tires..compare. If they pretty much free wheel then move onto what I suspect.

A bad bearing. When you replaced the bearings did you pack them? What preload did you establish on them?
 
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Old Sep 1, 2011 | 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by senix
Lift each wheel off the ground and spin the tires..compare. If they pretty much free wheel then move onto what I suspect.

A bad bearing. When you replaced the bearings did you pack them? What preload did you establish on them?
Yep, checked each wheel and they all would free spin at least two revolutions. Had a few different mechanics tell me that a little drag is not a big deal. They said to be sure I could get two revolutions on a good spin.

As for packing, yep packed the front bearings and rear bearings and wadded up quite a bit behind the rear seal. Even pulled the drum on the one in question and checked it. Plenty of grease and seemed good to go.

Not sure what you mean by what preload did I establish? I just held them in the palm of my hand one at a time and worked the grease into them until it wouldn't take anymore.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hd883chopper
Yep, checked each wheel and they all would free spin at least two revolutions. Had a few different mechanics tell me that a little drag is not a big deal. They said to be sure I could get two revolutions on a good spin.

As for packing, yep packed the front bearings and rear bearings and wadded up quite a bit behind the rear seal. Even pulled the drum on the one in question and checked it. Plenty of grease and seemed good to go.

Not sure what you mean by what preload did I establish? I just held them in the palm of my hand one at a time and worked the grease into them until it wouldn't take anymore.
Preload he means on the axle nut. They should only be about finger tight.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 06:33 AM
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My first thought would be bearing. But I would get that wheel off the ground and see how it spins with the wheel on. It may be that the first time the brakes engaged, it did not release as well as the others. Going for the simple fix first. If it spins to your satisfaction, then move on to the bearing. I farmed for 30 years, and replaced more bearings that I care to think, but when we did bearings, we would put the nut on, screw the nut up to snug, which meant the wheel did not "free wheel" that way we new we had taken the slop out of the bearing and grease then we backed off till it free wheeled 1 and half to 2 turns as you indicated. Just an FYI, I have replaced bearings, not looking at the race, which seemed to not be a perfect match or had a slight inperfection with the bearing and it would heat up. Also grease, are you using a good high-temp bearing grease?
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Gearitis
My first thought would be bearing. But I would get that wheel off the ground and see how it spins with the wheel on. It may be that the first time the brakes engaged, it did not release as well as the others. Going for the simple fix first. If it spins to your satisfaction, then move on to the bearing. I farmed for 30 years, and replaced more bearings that I care to think, but when we did bearings, we would put the nut on, screw the nut up to snug, which meant the wheel did not "free wheel" that way we new we had taken the slop out of the bearing and grease then we backed off till it free wheeled 1 and half to 2 turns as you indicated. Just an FYI, I have replaced bearings, not looking at the race, which seemed to not be a perfect match or had a slight inperfection with the bearing and it would heat up. Also grease, are you using a good high-temp bearing grease?
this is what I meant by preload.

Assuming all else is ok about the only other thing I can think of would be axle alignment. Not so sure that would matter but I suppose it could.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gearitis
My first thought would be bearing. But I would get that wheel off the ground and see how it spins with the wheel on. It may be that the first time the brakes engaged, it did not release as well as the others. Going for the simple fix first. If it spins to your satisfaction, then move on to the bearing. I farmed for 30 years, and replaced more bearings that I care to think, but when we did bearings, we would put the nut on, screw the nut up to snug, which meant the wheel did not "free wheel" that way we new we had taken the slop out of the bearing and grease then we backed off till it free wheeled 1 and half to 2 turns as you indicated. Just an FYI, I have replaced bearings, not looking at the race, which seemed to not be a perfect match or had a slight inperfection with the bearing and it would heat up. Also grease, are you using a good high-temp bearing grease?
Thanks for the response guys. I'm sure you can appreciate my concern on this one.

I checked it again last night, when jacked up, the wheel spins free. You do hear a very slight scuffing on the pads, but its not enough to stop the wheel or slow it down. My adjuster screw is bottomed out meaning I can't pull the brakes any further from the drum. That's all she's got. Do you think this slight drag is my problem?

Now, I will say this. I checked it out last night and the nut seemed to be a little tighter than what you're describing, so I backed it off just a little to give it a little breathing room. While I was in there I took a peek at the rear and front bearings and both were still fully coated and gooked up with grease, so visually everything seemed in order.

You mentioned good high temp grease. I used a grease that the NAPA guy suggested for marine application. It's called Moreys. Supposed to help fight water intrusion and that type of thing.
Moreys Oil.Com - Products

Going to take a test run in a few hours and see if backing that nut off some helped.

Thx,
HD
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by senix
this is what I meant by preload.

Assuming all else is ok about the only other thing I can think of would be axle alignment. Not so sure that would matter but I suppose it could.
Oh gotcha Senix. Sorry. Vocabulary malfunction

The nut seemed a little tighter than Gearitis was describing so I backed it off some. We'll see what happens on my test run about 1pm today. I'll post back some results!

Same question to you. Do you think a slight scuffing or drag on a free spinning wheel could be the issue? Man I hope not, because I can't back the adjuster screw down anymore. The only option would be to take the brake shoes out of that wheel all together. I dunno....
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 09:31 AM
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don't think the scuffing would amount to much as it would wear off very soon.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by senix
don't think the scuffing would amount to much as it would wear off very soon.
Just curious...is there a break in period or something when replacing these shoe's? I mean, I just did the job so I probably have only 10 miles on the new set. Is it possible that they've got to scuff up and heat up a little before settling in for the duration?
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 09:55 AM
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Never have seen much as far as a break in period. Generally in my past life as a brake tech...after a few applications of braking that is it.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by senix
Never have seen much as far as a break in period. Generally in my past life as a brake tech...after a few applications of braking that is it.
Thanks. Ok, I guess I'll have to see if loosening that axel nut will help. I'll know in a few hours when I go to test it. Man, this is killing me.
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 11:19 AM
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Pre-Load the Bearings:
At this point you are ready to install the hub and Pre-Load the bearings. Whenever you install new hubs or replace bearings and races into existing hubs, you should pre-load the bearings. Pre-loading the bearings assures that the races in the hub are 100% in place and against their machined stop points. This assures that the hub is tight and does not loosen up and start wobbling after a few miles.

To pre-load the bearings. Tighten the spindle nut Finger Tight, or until it comes up snug, and then with a crescent wrench or channel-lock pliers, tighten the spindle nut another flat of the nut. Now rotate the hub four or five revolutions in both directions. This should fully seat the races. Loosen the spindle nut, then re-snug to finger tight as before, engage the nut retaining device. Some spindles use a washer that fits a groove or flat on the spindle, and that has a tab that is bent over one flat of the nut for the retaining device. Others may use a thin sheet metal cap, with depressions that go over the spindle nut, with the cotter pin going thru opposing slots and through the spindle. This lock nut has the slots in slightly different locations so that exact tightness can be accomplished. Still others may use a "castle nut". This castle nut is a regular nut that is longer with slots on the outer end for a cotter in to pass through.

Never run your spindle nut Overly Tight, this will cause your bearings to over heat. And cause premature bearing failure. Never run your bearings too loose. A slightly loose spindle nut will run for many miles, but if it is very loose the individual rollers may come apart in the bearings, causing lots of trouble.

Boat Trailer Brakes & Repairs
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasRebel
Pre-Load the Bearings:
At this point you are ready to install the hub and Pre-Load the bearings. Whenever you install new hubs or replace bearings and races into existing hubs, you should pre-load the bearings. Pre-loading the bearings assures that the races in the hub are 100% in place and against their machined stop points. This assures that the hub is tight and does not loosen up and start wobbling after a few miles.

To pre-load the bearings. Tighten the spindle nut Finger Tight, or until it comes up snug, and then with a crescent wrench or channel-lock pliers, tighten the spindle nut another flat of the nut. Now rotate the hub four or five revolutions in both directions. This should fully seat the races. Loosen the spindle nut, then re-snug to finger tight as before, engage the nut retaining device. Some spindles use a washer that fits a groove or flat on the spindle, and that has a tab that is bent over one flat of the nut for the retaining device. Others may use a thin sheet metal cap, with depressions that go over the spindle nut, with the cotter pin going thru opposing slots and through the spindle. This lock nut has the slots in slightly different locations so that exact tightness can be accomplished. Still others may use a "castle nut". This castle nut is a regular nut that is longer with slots on the outer end for a cotter in to pass through.

Never run your spindle nut Overly Tight, this will cause your bearings to over heat. And cause premature bearing failure. Never run your bearings too loose. A slightly loose spindle nut will run for many miles, but if it is very loose the individual rollers may come apart in the bearings, causing lots of trouble.

Boat Trailer Brakes & Repairs
Good write up and info Texas. Thanks.
HD
 
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Old Sep 2, 2011 | 04:39 PM
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Well how did it go?
 
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