Hello gents!

I'm new to the forum, so a quick run down on what I'm thinking, and where I am at to preface the question.

I'm looking for a 1948-50 F1-F3, I've found (what from pictures) appears to be a decent F1 frame/body less the bed, motor & transmission.

When 'finished' I'd like to be able to tow a light trailer (say 3500lbs) for relatively short distances off the highway. I would equate the desired towing capacity to be more in line with a V6 Escape than say a V8 F150.

I understand there are braking, handling and suspension things to consider...

My Question:

<b>What engine/transmission/rear-end combination would you guys recommend?</b>

What 'donor' vehicles have the best configuration of said component?


I'm not opposed to some frame modifications for support, but I would like to avoid having the gear shift sticking out of the middle of the seat!

I've search this forum a bit, and read quite a bit of different builds online just didn't see any consistent pattern.

I've generally been thinking about a 302/C6 combination would that be large enough given the right build? I don't have a lot of experience in truck motors to be honest. My last project car was a 75 280Z and I had a completely different objective.

Thanks in advance, if all goes well I'll be around a lot over the next serveral months...er years, lol.

Jonathan

 

IMHO you can't go wrong with the 302. I have put 3 - 302's in mid-50 Fords and been very happy. If you want some beef and have the cash, I LOVE the 351W I have in my 55. Keep in mind that whatever you have in the front you may need to match in drivetrain, rear end, suspension and brake upgrades. These old gals where fine with drum brakes and the old tried and true Dana but putting a larger engine can stress the older suspensions and rear ends. Figure on upgrading to a 9" Ford rear end and front disc brakes with a dual master cylinder. Yes, you will have to work out the shifter location and the motor mount setups. Honestly, for towing in todays world, I never use my old trucks, no matter how restored/updated they are. To properly handle the weight, braking and steering that todays highways demand, I wouldn't put a classic through the pressure. These trucks handled great amounts of weight when they had to chug along at 35 miles per hour to the local feed store but pulling a 3500lb trailer at 70 miles an hour should be left to a truck you will get rid of in a couple of years. Do people pull with these trucks? Sure, but I wouldn't do it with anything over a 1000-1250# trailer. Just my .02. Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

 

Thanks for the reply! It won't be used to tow on the highway, I agree you're just asking for trouble there.

I do plan on upgrading the rest of the drive train, suspension and brakes.

Since I am going to be replacing the engine/transmission anyway, just thinking I should take light towing into consideration.

Is the 351W appreciably larger than the 302 in physical size? I honestly don't know enough about the differences between the two other than they are related blocks.

I'd be looking to do a power steering upgrade (maybe the Toyota?) which from what I've read has a clearance issue with some motors.

It's difficult not having either the car or engine at this point to measure.

 

As long as its a FORD and not a chevy engine. Keep it all ford if possible.

 

Welcome to the forum, Jonathan! It sound like you've done your homework and have a pretty good plan in place. I'll add a couple of things here for you to consider.

A '50 F-1 with a 302/auto trans drivetrain will weigh in right about 3000 pounds. And while you may consider a 3500 pound trailer light, it will outweigh your tow vehicle. That could get hairy in the wrong situation.

The second is the C6 transmission. While there is probably not too many automatic transmissions as capable for the work you intend, it is a power robbing hog, to the tune of about a 50hp loss through it. If you're talking about putting it behind a (stock approx. bhp rating) 200hp 302, that's a 25% power loss just to turn your trans. Not very efficient for trailer towing or fuel economy. I would suggest either a larger engine, or a different transmission, or both. A 351W and an AOD trans (built to handle the load) and a 9" rear with 3.50-3.89 gears would make a nice combo, and still fit into the tight confines of the Bonus Built engine bay.

That's my 2c.

 

One thing I'd like to add.

Something I would consider, think of a drivetrain that you can somewhat easily get repair parts for, especially if you plan on logging alot of miles on it. It's hard to find FE parts in stocka at most auto parts stores. I agree withthe guys, the 302 or 351W is a hard engine to beat, not to mention probably an easy fit in most cases. I have an FE jammed into my '56 and there is less than an inch of clearance to the Toyota steering box at the exhaust manifold. The FE is a wide pig. I would ahve rather used a 351W, but I used what I had and i happend to have a good C6 and a good running FE so that just made sense, for me anyways...
The 351W is only 1.5" wider across the deck (increased deck height for the added stroke). I doubt you'll notice much difference between installing a 302 in place of a 351W in these trucks. I have done this swap a time or two in Mustang IIs and let me tell you... every inch counts in those engine bays. As for transmissions, I'd lean tward the C4, or AOD for the overdrive flavor. The C6 is a great and stout tranny but is becomming behind the times with all the advances made in the C4 and the AOD trannies. If you have the C6 already, sure, run it. You'll get a small powerloss and have a little extra added weight, but it is still a stout and dependable transmission, even in stock form.

Bottom line... its your truck do to it as you please, as you're the one that has to be happy with it.

 

I am in the SLOW process of a 351W/AOD install. If I were to back up in time, I would find a 302. I have a JAG IFS and the 1.5" narrower, would be quite welcome in regards to steering joints.
Also I am going with EFI and there is alot of experience out there using a factory EFI from the newer 5.0's
And I don't think the HP 302 vs. 351W is an issue, in fact, in stock form, my '95 351W is only rated at 210hp. A 302 out of the similar year mustang would be more (i think). just my 2 cents!
Welcome to FTE !!!

 

IMHO, I think a small block Ford or Chevy engine would handle your towing chores well. The loss of HP on the C6 with a 302 is a matter of opinion. Famed transmission builder Art Carr says the loss is negligible. Finding a C6 that will bolt to a 302 may be a little difficult but they are out there. If you go the Chevy route a TH400 would be the best transmission for towing. I would not use a transmission with an automatic overdrive for towing...

 

How bout a 300 I-6 (might be a little tight on length but these trucks came with flathead I-6s from the factory so it might fit). just as much power as a 302 and much better suited for pulling. the c-6 is a great transmission but they are big and heavy and many people say the suck power like its going out of style (im a manual guy so don't really have much first hand knowledge) the c-4 is also a great transmission and im sure there is parts out there to build a c-4 into a capable pulling transmission for light use like you are wanting. just trying to throw some fresh ideas out there. ived pulled quite heavy trailers frequently with my 64 f250 with 4 wheel manual drum brakes and manual steering with no problems (not that im saying you shouldn't upgrade because you definatly should). If you don't try to drive it like a diesel super duty these trucks pull fine.

 

Beat me to it flatbed. 300 six, maybe even a 223!! He's towing off the road, so he's gonna be going slow. Want torque, not horse. I had a 67 f350 dump with a 330-6. It was geared for 50mph tops, but I could pull the I-480 eastbound grade with a John Deere 1010 backhoe on a trailer and hold that 50mph all day long. I even passed a few big rigs up that hill.

 

Anyone drop 460 big blocks in these things much? I'm thinking about resto modding mine with some nice stuff and doing the same thing the OP wants. How much frame modification is needed to the front to fit one?

 

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I've been reading voraciously anything I can find on these trucks and the various motors you all have suggested.

I do think I've settled on a 302 with a AOD.

I've read that the AODs come in a variety of internal configurations and I'll need to be sure what I'm getting. It left me wondering if there was any difference in the shift linkage mounting location between the different years/models they were put in that would also impact the decision? I was thinking 92-93 E/F series as I read they were built stronger internally.

For the fuel/air delivery I'm torn between EFI and carburation, my last project (1975 280Z) was fuel injected, and I've had little exposure to carburation. I like the visual simplicity of the carb approach so I'm really tempted to go that route. The problem being I'm at the "oooh thats shiney" stage of my understanding there. Any suggestions that would help me narrow my research would be great. Not looking for anything crazy like dual 4 barrel Holley's, just something inline with the concept of the build.

Thanks again for the input. I can't wait to get started collecting/building the stuff. Though the wife has demanded I part with the spare 2.8L Turbo 280Z motor I kept along with the extra heads (you never know when you might need one lol) before starting. I can't seem to convince her that I need the motor since I sold the car haha.

Does anyone know of a 1948-50 F1-F3 for sale in day-trip range of Kansas City? I'd probably be willing to head to Texas if it meant a rust 'free' body. The one I was considering is missing the bed which is apparently a small fortune to replace new. I've been hunting through craigslist, I'll probably start on the power train while I hunt for the right truck.

 

If the truck you're looking at is an F1 with the short bed, it's no great loss not to have a bed on it. The beds are usually rotted and beat up to the point they're unusable anyway, and need replaced. The aftermarket beds are really nice pieces, and buying a new one finishes half your truck for yourself really easily. The only thing you'll be missing is fenders. Those are available in fiberglass if you can't find good, used steel ones. Cost is not that bad when you consider the time saved and the level of finish you'll have when done.

F-2's and 3's on the other hand, you'd be better off building a flat bed. Trying to find a good or even half decent long box is going to be difficult. They are not reproduced.

 

Justa thought for the efi vs Carb... if you are looking for the Carb "look" this is better than nothing... Edelbrock.com - EFI - Pro-Flo®2 EFI Systems - Ford now I'm not saying get it or not but its just an option. I haven't tried to tune that particular fueling system ever. I'm a Carb guy myself.

And I feel you about the wife wanting you to get rid of the motor... my girlfriend says the same to me about stuff... they just don't understand that at some point in the future you might need that thing again haha.

 

The bed less the fenders is reasonable if you get the 50-52 style ($1100 or so, I live 15 minutes from LMC so no shipping), but they want $400 each for repro fenders. Ends up being about $2k all said and done.