Blackstone Labs is a popular oil analyzer.

 

And all this time I thought synthetic's main advantages were:

1. REDUCED wear (they are more slick).
2. Temperature extremes tolerance.


I couldn't care less about extended drain intervals.

 

You thought correctly. Check out this forum: www.bobistheoilguy.com

 

There is a lot to be learned at the above listed site but you need to remember that the "experts" are Amzoil and Shaeffer dealers so the info is very biased. Read past the BS and look at the numbers and the proof of the wear metals is on their board. Synthetics have usually a lower flow temp than that of dinos but not a lot. They usually exhibit higher flash points but not by much any more. Dinos have come a long way in just the past 5 years but synthetics have remained static. Kinda like the old Toyotas and the old Fords- there was no comparing the quality. Now they're getting closer together. Tomorrows dinos will be even more dynamic and most likely will pass the synthetics.

You might also do a search here for a thread "Dinos vs synthetics" where I listed numerous used oil analysis comparing dinos and synthetics on the same type engine.

 

Well, of course you have to take any talk about oil with a grain of salt. Just look at this thread we're in now. You had 2 Amsoil "people" preaching nonsense. The site I gave is simply another resource that can be used to determine what is best for you.

And, dino's will never surpass synthetics. The same advances that are employed in dino are used in synthetics and vice versa.

 

Seems this debate will never end. One thing that seems to have slipped through the cracks in this particular thread is the real world experiences of those who post here.
I might be wrong (probably am) but I have yet to see any used oil analysis results showing where any synthetic oil actually does "do better" than a good dino oil.
People talk about extended drain intervals and compare to dino oil changes at 3k miles. Test have repeatedly shown that dino oil is good to at least 5k miles.
I know...I know...extreme driving, work my truck hard, etc. etc. I know that in some cases this is true (Parrotthead comes to mind - by the way , where is he these days???) but I still believe that for the vast majority of folks a good dino (e.g. Chevron, Shell, Castrol, etc) changed every 5K with a Motorcraft filter is just as good (maybe better) than going 10-12k with a synthetic. If comparing equal drain intervals syn-vs-dino, it's a no brainer to me; dino wins hands down.
The reason: nobody has ever showed me where synthetic actually does better.
As I type this I realize the burden of prove in this particular debate rest on the fans of synthetic oil. The need to prove synthetic is better (in use) than is dino.
I have no qualms with those who value the psychological benefit of running synthetic oil, but still wait for those who promote the superiority of synthetic oil to prove their case.
It's an interesting debate and one that I don't see going away.
I will concede this: Some of the high end autos now come with synthetic oils, so it must be better, right? That argument does seem valid, but nobody can show me in the real world how all that washes down to me and my truck.

edited to add: as far as the Amsoil thing goes, let's just say I really like Ken's handling of the situation.

 

Agreed Brian. The MLM cult thing is creepy.

I'm using syntho as a talisman.

In my case 2 F**d and 1 GM trans lost over the years to overheating (towing over high desert to UT/AZ in 105+ heat) using dino ATF. Before anyone asks, coolers? yes, big ones. Got a gauge now, too.

1 GM 350 engine lost to sub-zero (-20) oil failure to flow.

95% of the time Chev-Delo or Valvoline dino would do me just great. It's that other 5%.

I'm hoping the extra dollars spent on manufactured juice will result in my spending less on repairs (knock on wood).

5k between changes, Motorcraft (PureOne) filter.

 

It has nothing to do with that. Do oil analysis on both oil types at 10,000 miles and you will see a huge difference. I only go by what I see with my own eyes. Personally, I know someone who has gotten 1-2 mpg better with synthetic with all variables being the same as when he used dino. I also know plenty of people that have had oil analysis done and have gotten better results from synthetics than dino. THAT'S what I go by.

I'll be changing my oil this weekend from Mobil Drive Clean (dino) to Mobil 1 (synthetic). I am sending in a sample for analysis. After a couple of changes of Mobil 1, I'll do the same again and compare the two.

See you in 6 months with the results.

Spoon: You're doing exactly what I'll be doing as of this weekend and for pretty much the same reasons.

 

Willie,
Perhaps you will see a big difference if you run both dino and syn for 10K miles and do a comparison. But, I don't run dino for 10K miles. I run it for 5K miles and used oil analysis have returned outstanding results.
I have done my own real world side-by-side comparison and posted the results in a thread some time back. The results: in my case, there was no discernible benefit to running synthetic. Nothing "gimmicky"; a real test with real numbers in my truck and zero benefit to synthetic. No difference in gas mileage either.
Not looking to pick a fight, but your "example" is what is often used to support syn oil: I know of a guy, or heard of a guy, or read about a guy.....
I AM a guy and I have real numbers from my truck that show no benefit to syn oil.

Sounds like "thespoon" might be one of those guys who actually does (on occasion) benefit from synthetic oil. His extreme conditions might really be extreme.

My next oil change will run thru the 100,000 mile point and I'll have a U.O.A. done. I'll post the results here. I'll bet $10 to a do-nut the Chevron 10w30 returns numbers as good as the Mobil1 10w30 did 40,000 miles ago when I did my comparison.

 

I'd like to respond to a couple of things.

1. The reason some high-end cars use synthetics for factory fill is that they have recommended service intervals of 10-15,000 miles.

2. If synthetics really increased mpg, all automakers would use it as factory fill. Millions of dollars are spent in research and engineering to increase CAFE, yet GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, etc do not specify synthetics.

 

All true.

However, remember that a $20 increase in cost (to the maker) per vehicle, multiplied by millions is big money. Remember the $5 per diode F**d saved on the early 2001 4R100s? Sure it was short-sighted, but they gambled on it to save money.

Apple eliminated a cooling fan from the original Mac design in order to save $3 a unit at the cost of motherboards going south annually.

BTW: The switch to 5w-20 (2001) AND a semi-synthetic in (late) 2001 WERE for the express purpose of raising the CAFE (albeit ever so slightly). Ford's Motocrap 5w-20 IS semi-synthetic, ergo the F**d factory IS using synthetics (semi) as a factory fill.

 

Thin 5W-20 is what increases CAFE, synthetic blend is so that the engine will last the warranty on that grade. Just substituting synthetic and not specifying a thinner grade would not result in higher CAFE.

$20 is the retail price for 4qt of M1. How much do you think an OEM would pay for bulk Havoline synthetic pruchased in those volumes, subtracting what they already pay for dino?

I know they sometimes make bone-headed decisions, but this CAFE thing is a very high priority.

Jim

 

If I see oil analysis results myself, it is my own experience. And, I doubt that will be the case with your oil analysis. HIGHLY doubt it.

 

Willie,
We can both speculate about the future. If I am proven wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.
But for the time being, I'd (seriously) like your comments on the UOA side-by-side comparison I did (results were posted here) where Mobil1 did not return numbers any better than Shell 10W30 dino. Add to that other's (Flash comes to mind) similar results.
Aside from TRUE extreme conditions (e.g 20 below zero), where DOES the superiority of synthetic oil manifest itself?
Again, not looking to pick a fight...just still searching.......
Thanks!

edit to add: here's a link to the thread I reference.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...hlight=%2Bstep

Disregard the thread author, it is incorrect. The meat starts on page 4 I think. Let me know your thoughts!

 

Are you speaking of the Premium Blue 5/40 that just came out ?

I have seen the MSDS of that oil and it sure looks promising. From first glance it's a better formulation than the Rotella T 5/40. Problem is I like oil topics but do not have a Diesel Engine to try it in