Gary, I need to send you my truck for a month's detailing.

It's in good condition but is primarily a work truck, so some things aren't practical for me to do on it.
But I understand enjoying doing a job for the satisfaction of the result, & not to a price or time-frame.

I'm a self-employed engineer, & the constant issue you face is cost to the customer (time), balanced against the quality of the job. In a lot of cases a compromise has to be made.
It's refreshing when it doesn't.

I'll think about the 'how to' article & post back.

 

EE? ME? CE? PE? I'm a wannabe engineer. Was in EE at university but didn't apply myself and, the grades being what they were, was invited to not come back. Ended up w/math and physics at a state college.

But, with amateur radio as an early hobby, building more Heathkits and Lafayette Radio kits than most can imagine, not to mention several computers, one of which I designed myself, I've kept close to the EE stuff my whole life.

 

Mechanical.......a machinist by trade; but also do a lot of welding & fabrication work.

 

No wonder you are trying different transmissions, etc. As for being a machinist, I wish I had those skills. I have a knee mill and a lathe, but am not good with either, although I can get things done. Took community college courses on the at age 60 - most fun I ever had in school. But the young pups in the classes didn't really appreciate me - instructor said it was something to do with me setting the curve. :-)

Anyway, no wonder you know what you are talking about!

 

I can understand that - it's been my job for over 30 years & I still enjoy it.
And as long as your eyesight lets you, it's a trade that you can continue with to any age - & looking at my bank account, I'll have to!

 

My thinking is that I'll do all the heavier stuff, like build engines, now when I'm physically fit, and then go to machining when can't do the heavier stuff. And, at that time I think I'll go CNC on the mill. My nephew, a EE, put CNC on his little mill and makes cool stuff that I could never make on mine. And, since I like technology/computing, putting CNC on should be fun in and of itself. Maybe they'll allow small mills in the rest home?

 

Gary; Hope you get it all going. I have done a lot of what you are doing, I would like to add a little input. Long Tube equal length headers along with that real 2" OR BIGGER dual exhaust. It seams the small block Fords Love the headers, and they really make a difference in every area, including mileage. I had a 73 F-150 Super Cab 460/c-6. I rebuilt it did the headwork, cut out the bump in the exhaust posrt and little bowl work, matched the ports (not the exhaust) re-curved the distributor, Rv cam 4 degrees retarted, Headers, duals,3.00 gears 245x15r70 tires and a 30% "Hone-o-Drive overdrive."
The best I got at 70 mph was 17.5 mpg with my 460. loved it. I got over 14 with the 3.75 third member in it at 70 in od.
But, really headers, long tube equal length if possiable really wake up the little Fords. I had a 72 Mustang 302 2bbl,three speed that would get 20 all day long with a set of headers, it really helped. Good Luck Ron

 

Ron - Thanks, but..... things have changed. I've wanted Dad's '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4 for a long time, but thought it would be a few years before he was ready to let go of it - even though he's 91. So, I've been building up my '82 F150 Explorer to use in the interim, and was going whole-hog to get the mileage up.

However, Dad's dementia is progressing faster than expected and I could have brought his truck home with me this evening had I been ready. So, I need to finish the Explorer and sell it and have decided I'm better off not to put the money into it that it would take to get the good mileage as I won't get it back when I sell it.

But, I am glad to hear that the various things I had planned will work, even on the 460, as I may incorporate some or all of them on Dad's since I intend to keep it in the family for many, many years.

 

C6 coming out, NP435 going in - this weekend, Gary

 

Ken - Your note was very timely. I am anxious to hear what differences you find in the NP435 vs the C6. The reason being that things have changed for me and, while you may have followed my saga I doubt it so will recap.

First, all the work I was doing toward fuel efficiency was on my '82 w/a 351W and C6. However, it now looks like I'll be getting Dad's '81 351W C6 4x4 very soon, and I'm come to the realization that I don't need two trucks and, therefore, need to sell the '82. Toward that end I'm doing the 351W build with stock spec's save the cam and ported heads - and possibly the Hughes Performance torque convertor, although I may keep that for Dad's C6.

But, to complicate things a bit more, I found an '81 w/a rebuilt 351M, mild cam, Edelbrock intake, Holley 4BBL, and NP435 and NP 208 transfer case. In addition, it has several other goodies like a new aluminum radiator, Mile Marker hubs, new gas tank and sending unit, new battery, fairly new tires, etc. But, the clutch is out and the guy was tired of pouring money in it so I got it for $500.

The main reason for buying it was the strong 351M and the other goodies that I plan to swap to Dad's. However, the thought of swapping the transmissions has taken up residence in my mind as well - hence my eagerness to hear what you think of the NP435 after having had a C6.

But, there's yet another idea lurking - a ZF5. Bruno2 found a complete ZF5 setup with clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, transfer case, pedals, and master cylinder for $1000 in a salvage close to me. So, since the ZF takes a different clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate than the 435, if I'm ever going to go that way now is the time.

So, please tell me how it goes on your swap awa what your thoughts are re my ideas for Dad's truck.

 

Sorry about the circumstances of getting your Dad's truck, Gary.

I will.....I may not get it completely finished over the weekend (other commitments), but certainly by early next week.

$500 sounds a great buy for that 351M truck with all it's parts.
I have a friend who had a Canadian 82 F150 with a 351M/C6, which was more a hot rod than a truck.
He said it performed really well, but that the fuel consumption was terrible - & he has had V8's & hi-po vehicles all his life. He sold it.
Probably a closer-to-stock engine would be better.

What if you were to put your Dad's (tired??) 351w into your truck to sell; then put your engine, with all it's parts & work done, into his truck to keep?

The ZF is certainly an interesting option at that price too - especially if you do long distance/higher speed driving, & are happy with a manual.

Is it a smallblock or bigblock bolt pattern?

For me, a 4-speed is fine with our 60mph limit & a 3.54 axle (30" tires).

Franklin2 said he gained 3 mpg swapping from a C6 to a ZF in one of his trucks - gas engine, but I can't remember the size.
Another member, Sycostang67, also gained 3mpg with the same swap behind a 460.

So many decisions

I'll update in a few days Gary.

 

Thanks, Ken. Last time I went up we got the truck started and he suggested I bring it home to work on. Yesterday he wanted the keys saying "I need transportation". So, I'm not sure that he's quite ready for me to bring it home. But I am sure he's not able to drive.

The 351M and 400 have the big block bolt pattern while the 351W is small block. So, thinking as I type, I'd have to swap transmissions awa engines. But, Dad's is the 4x4 and mine is 4x2, so there'd be tail shaft housing work to do. Don't think I'm up for that.

And, the block on this 351W isn't square as the pistons on the passenger's side are .035" down and those on the driver's side are .047" down at TDC. When I thought I was keeping this truck a lot longer I was going to have the block decked, which would necessitate milling the heads and maybe the intake due to the angles. That would have been another $250 - $350, and would have required more metal to be taken from the deck than some recommend.

So, I'm just putting it together as-is, which is really good in actuality since all the clearances check out very nicely. But, it'll have 8.2:1 compression rather than 9.2 and no quench given the deck height of the pistons.

However, the '81 I bought has what is said to be a really strong engine having been rebuilt very recently by someone that supposedly knows what he's doing. Don't know what cam is in it, but it has a nice mild lope at idle. And, the guy said it gets 12 mpg running light or 12 mpg pulling a house, while Dad's gets 10.

Yes, I'm thinking seriously about the ZF option. I don't do a lot of highway driving, but if I got Dad's truck and made the swap quickly then I could drive it the 110 miles each way to see him and take him out in it. He'd love that as he really liked his truck, which is a big part of why I want it.

However, the 435 would be an easier swap, so I'm all eyes waiting for your report.

 

Well, it's done Gary - just finished a few hours ago.

25.5 hours work involved. That included shortening both halves of the donor driveshaft (2x piece with center bearing - the original was a 1x piece).
There was preparation work on most of the parts used, in addition to this swap time.

The only thing I haven't done yet is swap the steering columns.
I did have my auto column out to change the pedals & bracket, but the manual column needs work before it goes in permanently.
While I was in there, I removed the auto shift indicator & put the manual dash piece in it's place.

Mechanically, the swap was all very simple, just bolt up.
The only complication I had (other than the driveshafts) was discovering that one of the four holes in the donor bellhousing, that the trans bolts into, had a stripped thread.
After banging my head on the wall a few times, I dropped the trans out again, tapped the two bottom holes oversize, & proceeded on.

I've only driven it a few miles, but in terms of performance, I've certainly gained on acceleration, over the C6; & my vacuum gauge has lifted 3-4 inches climbing the same hills, at the same speed, as usual
One other thing noticeable in top gear, was the rpm drop with no torque converter - I don't have a tach, but I'd guess 150-200 rpm @ 40mph.

I'll get back with mpg figures Gary

 

Ken - Congrat's! Sounds like you did a thorough job since you are changing the column and shift indicator.

What a bummer on the tapped holes. When you've gotten that far it is no fun to back up. But at least you had the tools to do it to hand.

Speaking of tools, how did you shorten the drive shafts? I'm just curious since I shouldn't have to do that if I just swap parts between the two trucks.

You said others have reported about 3 MPG difference going from C6 to ZF5, but I'm hoping you'll get most of that with the NP435. No, you don't have OD but at least you are losing the slippage in the torque converter. And, 150 - 200 at 40 MPH is probably in line with the 300 at 60 MPH I've heard. As we've discussed before, it isn't the RPM loss itself, but the energy that's lost. So, I'm all eyes as to how your MPG turns out. Should be a fair test since it is you driving the same truck on the same roads.

Speaking of that, I'm hoping to get my truck back on the road this week, and am curious what changes I'll see in MPG. I didn't go all-out since I'm selling it, but the ported heads and the true-dual exhaust should help some. Just need to stall the to-be owner long enough to get some true readings, and I'm not sure how many miles to put on the engine before considering it broken in.

Again, your swap is very timely as I'll be needing to make a decision on NP435 or ZF5 soon.

 

Thanks Gary.

I'm hopeful of a 3mpg gain too. The vacuum increase I mentioned makes me feel pretty confident.
I don't think 4-speeds vs 5, will stop me achieving that, with my axle & driving speed.

Shortening drive shafts is relatively easy.

The method varies slightly job to job, but typically you hold one end in the lathe chuck (3 or 4 jaw according to the need), & the other in the fixed steady; then part-off the yoke, through the weld.

From there, shorten to the length needed, & machine the tube end square.

Put the yoke back into the tube, carefully aligning to the corresponding yoke, & re-weld.
If you haven't cut off any weights, you often won't need to re-balance, unless it's a high speed application.

Regarding your possible manual swap, do you know which ZF trans it is?
I think some have a better spread of ratios than others.
That's the one downfall of the Ford-version NP435......the big jump between 3rd/4th.

It's going to be REALLY interesting to see the differences in MPG with your head work & exhaust mods.
Valuable experience in case you modify your Dad's 351W.

Good luck!