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Has Owning A Diesel Pickup Lost It's 'Edge'? Why BUY One Nowadays

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Has Owning A Diesel Pickup Lost It's 'Edge'? Why BUY One Nowadays

 
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:43 PM
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Has Owning A Diesel Pickup Lost It's 'Edge'? Why BUY One Nowadays

OK.....Looks like I'm 'invading' the HD/SD forum today.....

Sorry, Art. I know you get sick of me in the Club.......

The title is self-explanatory. I want input from ALL diesel owners.....Gas owners.....Anyone with an HD/SD with an opinion.....I know the topic has been discussed in different threads here.....And I'm NOT looking to start a pee-ing contest on Gas vs Diesel.....But would rather have a sober assessment on whether or not the reasons for getting a diesel no longer apply.

I bought mine (2000 7.3L diesel crew cab 4X4) in 2005. This was before Hurricane Katrina, and at the time, diesel was still running...oh.....0.10 to 0.20-cents CHEAPER than gasoline (remember those days?). Katrina changed all of that, and the new 2007 fuel standards put the nail in the coffin. Diesel is NOW on average .20 to .30-cents more EXPENSIVE than gas. There goes one of the reasons folks bought diesels back in the day.

Diesels used to be a lot simpler. No nonsense about exhaust emissions...and who gave a crap if you left the damned thing idling for hours on end......They sipped fuel...and while they didn't have the 'oomph' factor with seat-crushing horsepower.....they gave good low-end torque and GREAT fuel economy....(MPGs in the 20s were common)......Put the smoke belcher on a WORK truck....and the diesel premium wasn't quite so high back then......

Now? Mileage sux (it's rare to get anywhere NEAR 20mpg.....Even with the 7.3L), and have you checked the diesel premium you pay at the stealer lot? $7000 or $8000.....for the privelege of owning a gas guzzling diesel engine with a diaper over the exhaust, more electronics than the space shuttle, and while putting fuel in the tank which is a lot more expensive than gas!!!

Makes me wanna holler!

And it's the diesel truck the manufacturers are pushing. I took a trip to one of the stealer lots to check out the 250s and 350s....Not a gasser on the lot.....and the damned trucks were listing right around $60,000 beans! Holy crap! That's a freakin' MORTGAGE PAYMENT!!! I know, I know......NO ONE pays the MSRP....But still........

For the first time since I BOUGHT my diesel.....I'm seriously considering moving to a gasser.....Which is one reason I just plugged the 6.2L gasser question in this forum. My 7.3L still has some of the advantages listed above.....But the fuel cost factor sux......And it won't last forever.

Thanks
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:57 PM
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Not for me....a gas motor cannot pull my 5er without some extreme driving.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cmpd1781 View Post
OK.....Looks like I'm 'invading' the HD/SD forum today.....

Sorry, Art. I know you get sick of me in the Club.......

The title is self-explanatory. I want input from ALL diesel owners.....Gas owners.....Anyone with an HD/SD with an opinion.....I know the topic has been discussed in different threads here.....And I'm NOT looking to start a pee-ing contest on Gas vs Diesel.....But would rather have a sober assessment on whether or not the reasons for getting a diesel no longer apply.

I bought mine (2000 7.3L diesel crew cab 4X4) in 2005. This was before Hurricane Katrina, and at the time, diesel was still running...oh.....0.10 to 0.20-cents CHEAPER than gasoline (remember those days?). Katrina changed all of that, and the new 2007 fuel standards put the nail in the coffin. Diesel is NOW on average .20 to .30-cents more EXPENSIVE than gas. There goes one of the reasons folks bought diesels back in the day.

Diesels used to be a lot simpler. No nonsense about exhaust emissions...and who gave a crap if you left the damned thing idling for hours on end......They sipped fuel...and while they didn't have the 'oomph' factor with seat-crushing horsepower.....they gave good low-end torque and GREAT fuel economy....(MPGs in the 20s were common)......Put the smoke belcher on a WORK truck....and the diesel premium wasn't quite so high back then......

Now? Mileage sux (it's rare to get anywhere NEAR 20mpg.....Even with the 7.3L), and have you checked the diesel premium you pay at the stealer lot? $7000 or $8000.....for the privelege of owning a gas guzzling diesel engine with a diaper over the exhaust, more electronics than the space shuttle, and while putting fuel in the tank which is a lot more expensive than gas!!!

Makes me wanna holler!

And it's the diesel truck the manufacturers are pushing. I took a trip to one of the stealer lots to check out the 250s and 350s....Not a gasser on the lot.....and the damned trucks were listing right around $60,000 beans! Holy crap! That's a freakin' MORTGAGE PAYMENT!!! I know, I know......NO ONE pays the MSRP....But still........

For the first time since I BOUGHT my diesel.....I'm seriously considering moving to a gasser.....Which is one reason I just plugged the 6.2L gasser question in this forum. My 7.3L still has some of the advantages listed above.....But the fuel cost factor sux......And it won't last forever.

Thanks
Interesting comment. The darn gassers have improved so much, I have hard time making a case for diesel other than the cachet. One of my died in wool dealers who has pulled with diesel for years just got his new dually gasser in. I think he said he had to wait five weeks and there were only two showing on the dealer's computer in the entire country. He said with the drop in mileage on the new diesels, he just couldn't justify the high cost. I still think diesels are fun and I only have 50,000 miles on my 02, so I intend to have it a long time, but if I had it to do over again -

Steve
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:05 PM
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You guys nailed it. The HP wars have resulted in some very high output, but not very cost effective diesels.
For extreme applications by those who can afford to purchase/operate/maintain them, they still have their place.

For the vast majority of buyers, the current diesels are not the hot ticket.

I think there may be an opportunity for "lower output" diesels though. Tuned like the old 7.3. Less peak power, but much better mpg.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:07 PM
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I, like most people, have no reason to consider buying a $60K truck. That's because I really don't need one. I don't ever tow a load over 9,000 lbs and don't really want to. I don't see having a giant travel trailer as a bonus, a small one maybe. (I like to go to a lot of little, primitive state owned campgrounds where you can't get anything larger than 25' between the trees and rocks.) I am not in a business that would allow me to write off such a purchase. And none of my business requires a hulking F350. So that, in addition to all the reasons you listed, for me the answer is an emphatic NO! (Which does not mean that I don't love them.)

All that is with regard to existing diesels. I would love to have a turbocharged four cylinder diesel in a small half ton truck. (Dakota size truck.)
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:16 PM
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Diesels still have their place, but for daily towing (tow truck) I have switched to V10's for their reliability.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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I bought my 02 the same time as the OP did. I dont use my truck alot. I bought it with almost 40k miles I just crossed 100k a few weeks ago. I was using a few trucks with struggling gas motors. So i went diesel when the wife said we needed a new truck.

have not regretted it, I can say this had the Ecoboost engines been available I would of probably went that route. after owning a diesel however I still would not go back to a Gas engine.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RV_Tech View Post
Interesting comment. The darn gassers have improved so much, I have hard time making a case for diesel other than the cachet. One of my died in wool dealers who has pulled with diesel for years just got his new dually gasser in. I think he said he had to wait five weeks and there were only two showing on the dealer's computer in the entire country. He said with the drop in mileage on the new diesels, he just couldn't justify the high cost. I still think diesels are fun and I only have 50,000 miles on my 02, so I intend to have it a long time, but if I had it to do over again -

Steve
Gassers have improved???
Compare 230 HP in Powerstroke in 1999 to 400 HP in Powerstroke in 2010.
Now if you think you can run 400 HP with fuel consumption of 230 HP, than you sure are for a surprise .
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kajtek1 View Post
Gassers have improved???
Compare 230 HP in Powerstroke in 1999 to 400 HP in Powerstroke in 2010.
Now if you think you can run 400 HP with fuel consumption of 230 HP, than you sure are for a surprise .
He meant the gassers have improved compared to older gassers. I know the ecoboost is (on paper) in the same ballpark as my 7.3. I have never driven an ecoboost so I cant really say if they are the same or not. But on paper the ecoboost is in the same ballpark HP and torque wise (and lets be honest, in a truck torque is what matters) and it gets better MPG than I do.

That said, I love my diesel and will probably always have a diesel in my truck.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by senix View Post
Not for me....a gas motor cannot pull my 5er without some extreme driving.
You might be a good example of being one of those few people who truly have chores for the truck exceeding the practicle performance of a gasser.......
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cmpd1781 View Post
You might be a good example of being one of those few people who truly have chores for the truck exceeding the practicle performance of a gasser.......
Yeah, otherwise I would have no problem with a gas truck.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mwsF250 View Post

I think there may be an opportunity for "lower output" diesels though. Tuned like the old 7.3. Less peak power, but much better mpg.
Bingo.....

It's like the Big 3 is in a 'power' war.......And that, coupled with the bloviated exhaust systems, has created the crap fuel economy you used to see on diesels......Along with the sky-high price tags......

I know the old ones often saw mileage in the mid to high 20s.....Obviously the old powerplants had issues....But dammit.....They should be able to recreate a diesel with decent torque and good mileage again.....shouldn't they?
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cmpd1781 View Post
They should be able to recreate a diesel with decent torque and good mileage again.....shouldn't they?
I think the Ford is slowly catching with the rest of the World.
I do/did own all diesel Mercedes cars sold in US for last 30 years. Rough comparison how 3-liter diesels in cars improved over the years
1980 >>>> 112 HP, 25 mpg
1986 >>>> 144 HP, 32 mpg
1988 >>>> 174 HP, 36 mpg
2005 >>>> 201 HP, 40 mpg
after 2005 the engines had some environmental requirements, so they didn't make visible improvements in performance, but become much cleaner. Lot of newer Mercedes diesel owners say that their cars exhaust cleaner air, than they suck. At least in some areas.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:44 PM
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It has been a long time since you could justify owning a diesel on a cost to operate basis. Probably not since before 1999, certainly not since 2003.

Power to pull heavy loads, particularly at altitude, is why gassers are rare in the fifth wheel trailer world, and also in most of the travel trailer world. Where I go I see about 1 gasser for every 9 diesels, regardless of brand (most are Ford).

You can pull just about anything with just about any gasser, but diesel makes it a pleasure instead of a job. Towing with a gasser requires a "this works good enough" attitude. Towing with a diesel feels effortless.

Steve, doesn't sound like you need diesel.
 
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kajtek1 View Post
I think the Ford is slowly catching with the rest of the World.
I do/did own all diesel Mercedes cars sold in US for last 30 years. Rough comparison how 3-liter diesels in cars improved over the years
1980 >>>> 112 HP, 25 mpg
1986 >>>> 144 HP, 32 mpg
1988 >>>> 174 HP, 36 mpg
2005 >>>> 201 HP, 40 mpg
after 2005 the engines had some environmental requirements, so they didn't make visible improvements in performance, but become much cleaner. Lot of newer Mercedes diesel owners say that their cars exhaust cleaner air, than they suck. At least in some areas.
[SARCASM]That's wonderful. Too bad my F250 isn't a Mercedes. [/SARCASM]
 

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