I need fifth wheel help
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 63
I would not use a GN adapter on a 5th wheel trailer and I would be very cautious about buying a used trailer with a GN.
Most 5th wheel pin boxes are rated for 18K, with all the pivots right at the pin box nose.
It is really not that difficult to get close to the max rating, especially if you prefer a 20% cushion.
Think about how the fulcrum changes by lowering the connection point about 20-24 inches.
Horse trailers usually have the axles towards the rear, which results in a much higher pin weight.
Recreational trailers, tag-a-longs and 5th wheels almost always have the axles centered. Makes a fine line to keep the pin weight around 15-25%. And it makes for the average truck to have the ability to tow them.
I think it would be wise to have someone check the frame and all the related areas on a used trailer with a GN adapter installed. At least you have the advantage of knowing the GN was on there. Original owner could have just removed it when trading and then you would never know.
Most 5th wheel pin boxes are rated for 18K, with all the pivots right at the pin box nose.
It is really not that difficult to get close to the max rating, especially if you prefer a 20% cushion.
Think about how the fulcrum changes by lowering the connection point about 20-24 inches.
Horse trailers usually have the axles towards the rear, which results in a much higher pin weight.
Recreational trailers, tag-a-longs and 5th wheels almost always have the axles centered. Makes a fine line to keep the pin weight around 15-25%. And it makes for the average truck to have the ability to tow them.
I think it would be wise to have someone check the frame and all the related areas on a used trailer with a GN adapter installed. At least you have the advantage of knowing the GN was on there. Original owner could have just removed it when trading and then you would never know.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,225
Likes: 4,239
From: Kaysville Utah
This has stimulated my curiosity as to what the main reason are for both hitch types. I'm no expert, so I googled the gn vs 5th to see what others are saying about the two types. And just because I read it on the internet doesn't make it right or wrong. But a couple quick quotes of what I found.
From Mr Truck.com
"RV's have mini 5th wheel hitches as they are easier to back up to with the V opening. RV's used to be majority retired folks, with alot never towing before or hooking up to trailers much so they adopted a easy hitch and being conservative copied after semi trucks as you said. Then in the other trailer world, ranchers, horse folks etc, use their truck bed for work, hauling hay, corn etc. and needed the bed. So a small bed ball for a gooseneck trailer was their answer. They use trailers more and a usable bed was more important than ease of hooking up. A gooseneck is also easier to hook up on uneven ground and can be pulled over worse road conditions.
We are seeing a trend of folks converting their mini-5th wheel couplers on their RV trailers to also use a ball coupler like a gooseneck that can be turned over or taken out to allow more versitile use of the truck bed from baby boomers that are taking over the RV market. We just finished an article about coverting the 5th wheel coupler on the home page here. The writer noticed that the ball coupler has less jerking pulling a trailer verses the movement between the king pin of a 5th wheel and the jaws of the 5th wheel coupler. "
From Impliment Alley Discussion board
"The GN has a slight advantage as it can turn slightly past 90º but then the trailer begins to bind on the TV as it enters greater than 90º plus.
The 5th wheel flat bolster plate adds side to side trailer and TV stability "if" it only moves in one direction, forward to back, but most of the newer 5th's have side to side bolster plate roll loosing some of the stabiltiy, but some do have a side to side lock out pin that can be installed/removed at will depending on use.
A RV type 5th wheel doesn't have the side to side stability as a semi 5th wheel as the RV bolster plate is typicaly 8" round/square where a semi bolster plate is 30" or larger.
On ruff terrrian a GN clearly has the most advantage while hitching/unhitching but the newer multi-tilt 5th wheels are a close second. If you didn't have any tailgate/deck restriction, a GN can articulate at a greater degree front to back than a 5th."
A common comment that I noticed was that most RV manufactures will not warranty their trailers if towed by a GN. The common concensus was that RV trailers are not designed with enough strength in the neck/hitch area to with stand the extra leverage effect of the longer GN hitch. But there were also an equal number of comments that the GN ball gets the coupling down closer to the bed vs a 5th being higher up in the air and more movement as the truck leans on uneven terrain.
Like most internet discussions, There is a lot of "My dad says", or "my grandpa taught me" types of answers that you just have to use your own common sense about believing.
From what I can find. It appears that 5vers are easier to hook up, no chains. GN are typically stronger and articulate their loads better over rough terrain. GN are cheaper and take up less room in the bed. So it looks to me that the deciding factor is whether your RV manufacture designed the neck of the trailer to tolerate the stress that GN hitch might transfer because of the longer drop bar.
From Mr Truck.com
"RV's have mini 5th wheel hitches as they are easier to back up to with the V opening. RV's used to be majority retired folks, with alot never towing before or hooking up to trailers much so they adopted a easy hitch and being conservative copied after semi trucks as you said. Then in the other trailer world, ranchers, horse folks etc, use their truck bed for work, hauling hay, corn etc. and needed the bed. So a small bed ball for a gooseneck trailer was their answer. They use trailers more and a usable bed was more important than ease of hooking up. A gooseneck is also easier to hook up on uneven ground and can be pulled over worse road conditions.
We are seeing a trend of folks converting their mini-5th wheel couplers on their RV trailers to also use a ball coupler like a gooseneck that can be turned over or taken out to allow more versitile use of the truck bed from baby boomers that are taking over the RV market. We just finished an article about coverting the 5th wheel coupler on the home page here. The writer noticed that the ball coupler has less jerking pulling a trailer verses the movement between the king pin of a 5th wheel and the jaws of the 5th wheel coupler. "
From Impliment Alley Discussion board
"The GN has a slight advantage as it can turn slightly past 90º but then the trailer begins to bind on the TV as it enters greater than 90º plus.
The 5th wheel flat bolster plate adds side to side trailer and TV stability "if" it only moves in one direction, forward to back, but most of the newer 5th's have side to side bolster plate roll loosing some of the stabiltiy, but some do have a side to side lock out pin that can be installed/removed at will depending on use.
A RV type 5th wheel doesn't have the side to side stability as a semi 5th wheel as the RV bolster plate is typicaly 8" round/square where a semi bolster plate is 30" or larger.
On ruff terrrian a GN clearly has the most advantage while hitching/unhitching but the newer multi-tilt 5th wheels are a close second. If you didn't have any tailgate/deck restriction, a GN can articulate at a greater degree front to back than a 5th."
A common comment that I noticed was that most RV manufactures will not warranty their trailers if towed by a GN. The common concensus was that RV trailers are not designed with enough strength in the neck/hitch area to with stand the extra leverage effect of the longer GN hitch. But there were also an equal number of comments that the GN ball gets the coupling down closer to the bed vs a 5th being higher up in the air and more movement as the truck leans on uneven terrain.
Like most internet discussions, There is a lot of "My dad says", or "my grandpa taught me" types of answers that you just have to use your own common sense about believing.
From what I can find. It appears that 5vers are easier to hook up, no chains. GN are typically stronger and articulate their loads better over rough terrain. GN are cheaper and take up less room in the bed. So it looks to me that the deciding factor is whether your RV manufacture designed the neck of the trailer to tolerate the stress that GN hitch might transfer because of the longer drop bar.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
This has stimulated my curiosity as to what the main reason are for both hitch types. I'm no expert, so I googled the gn vs 5th to see what others are saying about the two types. And just because I read it on the internet doesn't make it right or wrong. But a couple quick quotes of what I found.
From Mr Truck.com
"RV's have mini 5th wheel hitches as they are easier to back up to with the V opening. RV's used to be majority retired folks, with alot never towing before or hooking up to trailers much so they adopted a easy hitch and being conservative copied after semi trucks as you said. Then in the other trailer world, ranchers, horse folks etc, use their truck bed for work, hauling hay, corn etc. and needed the bed. So a small bed ball for a gooseneck trailer was their answer. They use trailers more and a usable bed was more important than ease of hooking up. A gooseneck is also easier to hook up on uneven ground and can be pulled over worse road conditions.
We are seeing a trend of folks converting their mini-5th wheel couplers on their RV trailers to also use a ball coupler like a gooseneck that can be turned over or taken out to allow more versitile use of the truck bed from baby boomers that are taking over the RV market. We just finished an article about coverting the 5th wheel coupler on the home page here. The writer noticed that the ball coupler has less jerking pulling a trailer verses the movement between the king pin of a 5th wheel and the jaws of the 5th wheel coupler. "
From Impliment Alley Discussion board
"The GN has a slight advantage as it can turn slightly past 90º but then the trailer begins to bind on the TV as it enters greater than 90º plus.
The 5th wheel flat bolster plate adds side to side trailer and TV stability "if" it only moves in one direction, forward to back, but most of the newer 5th's have side to side bolster plate roll loosing some of the stabiltiy, but some do have a side to side lock out pin that can be installed/removed at will depending on use.
A RV type 5th wheel doesn't have the side to side stability as a semi 5th wheel as the RV bolster plate is typicaly 8" round/square where a semi bolster plate is 30" or larger.
On ruff terrrian a GN clearly has the most advantage while hitching/unhitching but the newer multi-tilt 5th wheels are a close second. If you didn't have any tailgate/deck restriction, a GN can articulate at a greater degree front to back than a 5th."
A common comment that I noticed was that most RV manufactures will not warranty their trailers if towed by a GN. The common concensus was that RV trailers are not designed with enough strength in the neck/hitch area to with stand the extra leverage effect of the longer GN hitch. But there were also an equal number of comments that the GN ball gets the coupling down closer to the bed vs a 5th being higher up in the air and more movement as the truck leans on uneven terrain.
Like most internet discussions, There is a lot of "My dad says", or "my grandpa taught me" types of answers that you just have to use your own common sense about believing.
From what I can find. It appears that 5vers are easier to hook up, no chains. GN are typically stronger and articulate their loads better over rough terrain. GN are cheaper and take up less room in the bed. So it looks to me that the deciding factor is whether your RV manufacture designed the neck of the trailer to tolerate the stress that GN hitch might transfer because of the longer drop bar.
From Mr Truck.com
"RV's have mini 5th wheel hitches as they are easier to back up to with the V opening. RV's used to be majority retired folks, with alot never towing before or hooking up to trailers much so they adopted a easy hitch and being conservative copied after semi trucks as you said. Then in the other trailer world, ranchers, horse folks etc, use their truck bed for work, hauling hay, corn etc. and needed the bed. So a small bed ball for a gooseneck trailer was their answer. They use trailers more and a usable bed was more important than ease of hooking up. A gooseneck is also easier to hook up on uneven ground and can be pulled over worse road conditions.
We are seeing a trend of folks converting their mini-5th wheel couplers on their RV trailers to also use a ball coupler like a gooseneck that can be turned over or taken out to allow more versitile use of the truck bed from baby boomers that are taking over the RV market. We just finished an article about coverting the 5th wheel coupler on the home page here. The writer noticed that the ball coupler has less jerking pulling a trailer verses the movement between the king pin of a 5th wheel and the jaws of the 5th wheel coupler. "
From Impliment Alley Discussion board
"The GN has a slight advantage as it can turn slightly past 90º but then the trailer begins to bind on the TV as it enters greater than 90º plus.
The 5th wheel flat bolster plate adds side to side trailer and TV stability "if" it only moves in one direction, forward to back, but most of the newer 5th's have side to side bolster plate roll loosing some of the stabiltiy, but some do have a side to side lock out pin that can be installed/removed at will depending on use.
A RV type 5th wheel doesn't have the side to side stability as a semi 5th wheel as the RV bolster plate is typicaly 8" round/square where a semi bolster plate is 30" or larger.
On ruff terrrian a GN clearly has the most advantage while hitching/unhitching but the newer multi-tilt 5th wheels are a close second. If you didn't have any tailgate/deck restriction, a GN can articulate at a greater degree front to back than a 5th."
A common comment that I noticed was that most RV manufactures will not warranty their trailers if towed by a GN. The common concensus was that RV trailers are not designed with enough strength in the neck/hitch area to with stand the extra leverage effect of the longer GN hitch. But there were also an equal number of comments that the GN ball gets the coupling down closer to the bed vs a 5th being higher up in the air and more movement as the truck leans on uneven terrain.
Like most internet discussions, There is a lot of "My dad says", or "my grandpa taught me" types of answers that you just have to use your own common sense about believing.
From what I can find. It appears that 5vers are easier to hook up, no chains. GN are typically stronger and articulate their loads better over rough terrain. GN are cheaper and take up less room in the bed. So it looks to me that the deciding factor is whether your RV manufacture designed the neck of the trailer to tolerate the stress that GN hitch might transfer because of the longer drop bar.
Sam
Jäger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 5
From: Northern Arizona
Do any of the RV frame manufacturers make 5th wheel and GN type units? It would be interesting to hear from a frame manufacturer if there is a difference in engineering of the 5th and GN type frames.
I've not seen a picture comparison of a 5th vs GN frame prior to the RV/trailer being built on it. That would be interesting to see.
I've not seen a picture comparison of a 5th vs GN frame prior to the RV/trailer being built on it. That would be interesting to see.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,225
Likes: 4,239
From: Kaysville Utah
I'd have to believe that the neck of the trailer will be the same strength either way. The starting and stopping will be the same regardless of the hitch type.
So the only difference would be in the drop leg ( or what ever you call it). On the 5ver its a very short if at all, While the GN will have 14"-18" lever that will increase the pressure against the welds that attach it to the trailer.
And yes I was kinda surprised that I couldn't find an authorative this vs that comparision.
Coming from the Horse and equipment trailer world, Goosenecks are a way of life for me, I don't find them hard to hook up and my only compliant is hooking up the chains.
Kep, Scroll to the bottom on the link I posted below. Mr Trailer is reviewing how a horse trailer is built and there are a bunch of photos of the framed horse trailer before the skin is put on. Sorry I don't have any links showing a 5vers framing.
Oops Sorry. To long of a link it truncates.
Go to this link instead and then choose the Logan Coach review and scroll to the bottom.
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/Hom...viewsindex.asp
So the only difference would be in the drop leg ( or what ever you call it). On the 5ver its a very short if at all, While the GN will have 14"-18" lever that will increase the pressure against the welds that attach it to the trailer.
And yes I was kinda surprised that I couldn't find an authorative this vs that comparision.
Coming from the Horse and equipment trailer world, Goosenecks are a way of life for me, I don't find them hard to hook up and my only compliant is hooking up the chains.
Kep, Scroll to the bottom on the link I posted below. Mr Trailer is reviewing how a horse trailer is built and there are a bunch of photos of the framed horse trailer before the skin is put on. Sorry I don't have any links showing a 5vers framing.
Oops Sorry. To long of a link it truncates.
Go to this link instead and then choose the Logan Coach review and scroll to the bottom.
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/Hom...viewsindex.asp
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 63
I have seen stack of trailers at the Lippert factory in Indiana. And in no way are they built the same as what I have seen on GN dump trailers (only GN I have seen without a skin)..
A trailer built from the ground up to be a GN "appears" to be built substantially different from a recreational 5th wheel.
I am not for or against a GN, although given the option from the factory I think I would get a GN. I could put the air ride on the GN and only have the single little ball in the bed to deal with.
That lever mentioned is the reason why I would have concerns about any used trailer equipped with an adapter.
GN's almost always get you a higher pin and max GVW the a similarly sized 5th wheel, and there is a reason for that.
A trailer built from the ground up to be a GN "appears" to be built substantially different from a recreational 5th wheel.
I am not for or against a GN, although given the option from the factory I think I would get a GN. I could put the air ride on the GN and only have the single little ball in the bed to deal with.
That lever mentioned is the reason why I would have concerns about any used trailer equipped with an adapter.
GN's almost always get you a higher pin and max GVW the a similarly sized 5th wheel, and there is a reason for that.
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
you also have to manually connect the safety chains.. not present on 5th wheels.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 63
true, but that would take less time and effort then my current procedure of lifting the jacks a 1/2" off the ground, applying full trailer brakes and trying to pull away to check the 5th wheel latch, and then fully retracting the landing gear.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
sam
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,225
Likes: 63
With my Pull-rite Super-glide you could look at the pin and see that the catch had wrapped around the pin. That system was just about fool proof because as the pin was wrapped 270 degrees. Even if the lock was not set the pin would still be retained.
With my current TS3 the pin is latched with a "C". Think your finger and thumb coming together forming a circle. Once that happens the release latch is spring loaded and sends a block of steel in between the fingers, locking the clamp together.
Only if you remember to pull the release pin, allowing the latch to move into position.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,180
Likes: 83
From: Georgia
Another satisfied B&W owner here. Although I have a '10 truck, the head of the units are nearly identical(if not the same head). The B&W is the easiest hitch I have ever seen to hitch/unhitch. Truly a quality hitch that is 100% made here in the USA with American steel. If you decide on a B&W, try this store on Ebay 3300 Companion 5th Wheel RV Hitch for Gooseneck | eBay . The Ebay store is Got-Chrome. I ordered mine on a Friday morning and it was delivered on Saturday morning by Fedex as they have a distribution center in Atlanta. However they have them all across the nation.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Terrell, Texas
Golfmedik.... I just ordered that same hitch from a local accessory dealer. Tweetysrv.com has the hitch for sale at the same price as your eBay link. Tweetys has free shipping in the lower 48 and normally arrives within 2 days