Paul, thanks for chiming in. I think we as a subset of owners from your overall population of owners (our demographics probably includes less acne and more gray hair ) have experienced the full spectrum of service quality through our years of ownership. Unfortunately service department quality is inconsistent and combine that with intermittent problems & owner's interpretation of the problem - you have all the ingredients for dissatisfaction.

Verification is important, as is my word as a customer something is wrong. Personally I am not looking forward to having this update done. The truck exhibits the cold soak issues that will be gone by the time I get to the dealer and the 4/5 harsh shifting is intermittent. I just don't want to hear them say, "we will need it overnight so we can verify it". Because that will cost time & money for me.

I work for a global manufacturer and I know warranty costs are always a concern. Balancing that with keeping our customers happy can be tough especially in a B2C environment. Maybe it is time to spend a little of that R&D budget on predictive and proactive failure analysis capabilities the vehicle health report is a start...

 

OK, so here is a subjective question - I have one of the first Job 2 built trucks (Nov 2010) and I have yet to notice a missed shift like most of you have complained about. My only transmission related complaint has to do with delayed 1-2 upshifts under light load (snaps the old noggin back and makes in town driving a pain in the butt) and the throttle tip in seems to have a huge deadband where it seems like all or nothing. Based on these issues, does it seem like it would be worth asking my dealership to flash the newest software that is part of the TSB? Based on all the debate, can a dealer justify the warranty claim for these minor complaints? I appreciate your thoughts before I make the haul to my dealer and ask. Thanks

 

I have to also chime in on this one..... I had a transmission problem with my 06 Ram 2500 Diesel and everytime I took it to the dealer they could never re-create the problem. The CEL was on and the same 2 codes were stored but the trans issue was gone because I turned the truck off and then back on. I had been in the dealerships a minimum of 5 times in 3 years and still nothing...$1200 for a new TIPM cause one of the dealers said that was definately the problem... I received NO HELP from Dodge at all so I fixed the problem by buying a new F250. Now I have the annoying shifting problem appearing from time-to-time (not very often) and if I go in and am told that the TSB will not be installed because they cannot re-create the problem then what should I do???????? Every tech knows that this is a very sporatic problem that cannot be re-created at will....

 

First off, sorry for your troubles with the truck. Because of todays electronics dominated vehicles, we still need to "see" the problem. Other things can cause the issue you speak of. There always is the possibility of the flash "hiding" the underlying issue. Thats one reason we have to verify the customers concern.

 

That is exactly my point. Both RedneckTrucker and HossF250 are both experiencing variations of what I think this TSB is supposed to cover. There is no code, no "crappy shifting" light that will come, just their word they have a problem or are dissatisfied with the performance. Add in the intermittent factor, people will get frustrated.

One thing that I have done that helps convince the service department is documenting the problem. I put a cheap log book in the vehicle and just note every time it does something. At least it shows the service people I am concerned enough to track it.

 

If the PCM/TCM is defective, or intermittently losing power, no dtc will set. Intermittent power loss will cause the trans to attempt to "relearn" resulting in erratic shifting. Dont forget water intrusion/corrosion in connectors. A flash wont do anything to repair that. Then we have another irritated customer. And explaining to Ford the flash that the customer didn't need.

 

I think you are supporting my points! If you play out the scenario you are describing - assuming you can't reproduce the customer complaint, what's your next step after checking all of the connections? Send the customer home? Hold the truck for a few days hoping to reproduce the problem, tear into the tranny or do the flash?

Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast with today's technology. In the industry I work in, we face the same problem. The difference is we send our engineers to the customer site. We have spent a fair amount of time and money developing the capabilities to do more remote diagnostics to help
validate the customer's concerns - especially for problems that are intermittent in nature. We have found that as long as we take care of the customer (i.e. keeping them informed and mapping out a plan to support them), we can always fix the hardware to their satisfaction - even if it take a while to do so. I am not even going to go to the customer induced problems. That is another skill set all together

 

You made some assumptions about my experience and capabilities there. Glad you can't fire me.

We test our updates in a staged environment. It wouldn't be prudent not to. My references to an update were based on valid testing first. These updates are never developed for giggles, they are done to fix issues and improve performance. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you also understand getting companies to acknowledge and address issues is difficult enough as it is, so when they do put out new code, chances are you do want it and shouldn't be hassled when you know about it.

Ford tested this in theirs, I am quite sure, as evidenced by the first attempt and then pulling it.

My point was don't hassle the customer when they probably know more about the issue than you do (which is becoming increasingly common, sadly enough). There are also politics here. Ford won't do an outright recall because they don't want to admit fault. Fine, I get that. But, do not punish the knowledgeable owners who seek to proactively avoid issues and improve their investment.

Likely personal preference more than anything, but if they improved the code for the transmission, I want it. And don't bust my ***** when I tell you I do.

 

My truck has done this as well. Maybe about 3 or 4 times in 1800 kms. I personally don't consider it a problem per se and see it more a function of the adaptive learning. I am now trying very hard to be smoother in my throttle application in the slow-down to almost a stop an the quickly speed back up areas. My Subaru was just as annoying in this respect and that was due to a lack of a first gear synchro. I learned to drive around the nuance and hoping to be able to the same with this truck. If I can't and/or it gets worse in time, I may go in for a reflash. JC

 

Im glad I have a dealer and SM that as soon as I pulled into the service bay and metioned it he that there is a new flash that came out yesterday to pull up and the tech will install it and you'll be on your way shortly. 35-40 mins later I was pulling out of the dealer...

 

Amen Brother Rutcutter. Well said. A dealership that listens to the customer and trusts them when they report issues and is more than willing to apply a documented TSB that addresses issues reported is NOT defrauding Ford. In fact, that dealership is saving everyone (Ford included) when they happily comply without a hassle to the customer.

And I only pray I don't have to deal with a service manager/tech like Vloney this afternoon when I go in. No offense, but don't bust ***** and say we have to drive it, keep it overnight, etc. I can't do what I need to do with a Focus overnight, or I would have bought a Focus to begin with.

I will look high and low, and when I find a compliant dealership that will easily work with me without hassles, they will earn my loyal business for a lifetime.

 

And the mother $&%#* CEL is back on! letter to Ford with a CC to my attorney to follow. I want out.

 

I'm sorry to see this. I was watching to see if Ford has really fixed issues and been up front with us same ole same ole. good luck man

 

First - I want to say thanks to Paul & vloney for their input & help here at FTE and on this TSB info as well..

Next - I am not sure if I get the issue with a reflash. It is not a recall - it's TSB.

The way I have always understood it, is that a recall is something that the company doesn't want to do (financially) unless it is a safety issue/problem. Then they replace a suspect part to preempt a problem..(I am not getting into whether the trans problem is a safety issue when we "stall out" pulling into traffic)..

Then you have a TSB... The TSB's were originally created (at least I thought they were) so that when a problem arose that multiple people were having - the company would see it and research it and provide a fix - The problem is that many times the dealer's tech is spending time/money reproducing/ isolating/ replacing parts, etc. So then comes the TSB so that the tech can say "OK we know how to fix without all the time & money involved in researching/analyzing each case (and charging Ford - warranty time).

Now we have the internet - so we hear of these TSB's before the dealer does in some cases. The good and the bad is - we want it & dealer says that they have to test to see if it is needed.. we as owners feel like we know best because we have been waiting on the fix.

The thing that also comes out of this is that I started having these issues in December. From here at FTE, I realized that this was a common issue and comments from those "in the know" said "Ford is working on it" so I was patient. I could have been taking the truck to the dealer leaving it telling them that the tranny needed replacement - again & again until I went to the buy back or Lemon law route...

So while I understand that Ford needs the dealer to "verify or reproduce" the issue - I think that is a waste of time and money (for Ford, Tech, dealership, Owner) to have too much in-depth testing. Meaning - mine has to "soak" for a couple of hours than go straight to a larger road for it to happen.. I can reproduce for the dealer, but It would take me (who is familiar with the way to "make it happen") and a couple of hours of my time & 2 minutes of a techs time... But, I would bet that I could leave it at the dealer for a day & they would not be able to reproduce unless I got very lucky...

Now - for the guys throwing codes & stuff that is different - they would show - but those with tranny issues I think applying a "Flash" that only cost .6/hr & no "hard parts" the verification process should be streamlined..


Sorry for the Thesis......

 

I don't want to get too technical, but isn't the lack of testing the thing we are complaining about.. and now we want them to SKIP TESTING?!..

part of the overall problem we have here is an information contaminated society. we think because we KNOW.

Sam