Stage 1 or Stage 2 injectors? What is needed for each to gain the full potential of these injectors. In my case, I know this will bother some of you guys but I have setting in my shop a Turbo back 4" exhaust, New intake system and a new chip I have the gauges already installed and I swear I am going to get to work on it soon.

Anyway I think I have enough money in the truck fund to buy transmission cooler and a set of injectors, with what I have I assume Stage 1s is the ticket but why not Stage 2s. What's the deal? I know the transmission is the weak link, baring that what else is needed?

I have searched around some but I have not come up with a clear explanation between the two, what is needed for each basically. What are the minimum modifications needed to run either stage one's or stage two's.

 

intercooler, bigger hpop obviously idk im pretty sure a modded 17* from TE should handlt two no problem, and a new turbo maybe a d66 but idk im not a turbo expert but i know that about all our stock turbos can handle are stage I's. and probably electric fuel i dont think our stoc fuel system would handle it so well but i could be wrong.
and what tranny cooler are you looking at? a 6.0 or dieselsites tru-cool?

 

It all depends on your plans for the truck. You can even tune hybrids to run like stock injectors so my advice is get the biggest injectors you think you will want and then talk to your tuner and have them detuned untill you are ready with supporting mods to get their full potential. It beats buying the injectors twice. Its all in the tuning. Stage twos are only a little more so thats the route id go. But it all depends on your plans. Alot of guys that bought stage 1's wish they got 2's and guys with 2's wish they got hybrids. I wish i had hybrids. Call your tuner and Jim at rosewood and pick their brains a little bit. Yes save up for a trans. BTS or JW.

 

First question is what are your goals for the truck? Where do you want to end up powerwise? Once you establish that, choose an injector that fits in that.

IMO, get hybrids...They are about the same price as 2's and they are very tune-able.

To run these to their full potential, you will need a built transmission, turbo, electric fuel, intercooler, and HPOP.

 

So explain the tune-able part? What do you mean tune-able the injectors them self are tune-able?

 

Whenever you upgrade injectors, You will need to tune them for your set up. If you buy hybrids, You can get them tuned to run near stock until you can build the rest of your truck to support them. Meaning, you could buy injectors one time, then as you add your HPOP, transmission, electric fuel, intercooler, Turbo, you can send your chip back and get it reburned as you step it up.

 

OK cool I think I'm starting to get a handle on it. Thanks for the help.

 

If you go that route I don't know who's tunes you plan on using but if you go with dp tuner you will get charged each time you get it reburned and with php or tw you wont.

 

I think he has a chip from Jim...

 

Stage 1's will make more than enough boost to toast a stock turbo. You won't fully utilize 2's for long without a turbo upgrade. If you tow/haul much weight you will need an IC to keep EGT in check, otherwise you'll need to turn the chip down. Stage 2's have different nozzles, I don't believe you can make those run like stock anymore.

I have stage 1's, modded 17 HPOP, and 6.0L IC, and TW tuning. It's a pretty good combination for my towing/hauling needs. I don't think I could use more fuel as I'm already riding right on 1200F when I'm pushing it hard. I see a camper in your pic, so I'm guessing you will be building to haul not hot rod?

 

Technically, you get the same amount of fuel with either a "Stage 1" or "Stage 2" injector. "Stage" is one of those words that should be outlawed though...kind of like "update", but that's a different story for another time.

The capacity on both injectors is usually the same (in current injector building circles) but can vary a little bit (like 20cc over 1000 shots...no big deal) depending on where you get them. The main difference comes in the actual orifice size in the nozzle.

An average of 0.16cc (.005 ounce) per injection event takes a lot less time when you have larger holes to empty from. Keep in mind that you are talking about FULL CAPACITY injection events (high load/high ICP).

The time required to empty the injector is the limiting factor when talking about high RPM with these HEUI injectors.

For a few numbers we can put on this, assume a "stage 1" injector will empty in about 3.5 milliseconds at around 3000 PSI of injection pressure. We as 7.3L owners have about that much time to play with at 3300-3500 RPM or so. Anything after that and we run out of injection window time electronically. This is of no consequence since the injector is empty anyway...we gain nothing from being able to have fuel being injected for any time past that.

Take a look at a "stage 2" injector now. Same capacity, larger nozzle orifices. It is very possible to empty that injector now at 2.5 milliseconds at the same injection pressure. Keep in mind that we can effectively lower the desired injection pulse width across the board and maintain similar power levels as the "stage 1" because we get more fuel with every injection event given a similar ICP and injector pulse width.

Here's where the issues come in with the "stage 2" injectors. The relatively small injector capacity and the accompanying larger orifices cause the injector to empty very quickly. Calling for more than 2.5 milliseconds at 3000 PSI will have the injector nearly empty....thus you can actually have a top-end that falls off quickly compared to the stage 1s.

The midrange fuel delivery of the "stage 2" injectors can make some REALLY GOOD power numbers, but for the price difference, I'd personally stay with "stage 1" injectors unless you want to step up to hybrids or larger capacity (200+cc) singles. Be forewarned though that high capacity singles take a lot of oil to run where hybrids can use less oil for a given capacity.

ON EDIT:
Additionally, your truck will run fine on "stage 1" injectors while using stock programming. Obviously, you will not see the full power benefit on stock programming (pulse width too short to dump all of the fuel), but it will run just fine. "Stage 2" injectors will run super-rich at idle and will be very smoky with stock nozzle pulse width numbers....so it will run fine, but idle rough and smoke on acceleration.

 

Great post Cody!

 

Yep already have a chip from Jim

 

Thanks for the tips. As far as the build goes, yes probable more for towing but I like to Hot Rod with the best of them. So if there is such a thing I would like to have a little of both, a Hot Rod towing rig that I can use as a daily driver.

 

Thanks Cody, Great info...... Now we are talking being learned. Thanks