cold air intake!!
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
OK. So with an open element we are seeing temps extremely close to ambient. Anyone care to explain how you can build an intake to pull in air colder than ambient?? It cannot happen, ever! So technically even a true CAI can only pull ambient air temps, just like the open element.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
Well.. let's talk about this. What is ambient air? Simply put, it is the temp outside. So here is what we know. Underhood temp is almost ALWAYS warmer then "ambient" air. So by adding an open filter under the hood and calling it a CAI is not correct. Will you be able to get more air in? I would say yes. However it is not going to be a CAI. A true CAI is one that takes it;s air supply from outside the engine compartment, and that would be "ambient" air. The faster your truck drives, the more cool air will make it to your engine. Period..
A K&N FIPK is NOT a CAI, will it give you more power? An increase in air velocity to you engine? I agree an say yes.
A K&N FIPK is NOT a CAI, will it give you more power? An increase in air velocity to you engine? I agree an say yes.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,008
Likes: 7
From: Austin, TX
I don't think any of us open element users ever said that we had CAI's, we just said that with an open element, we are seeing temps VERY close to the same as ambient. So how is the open element any different than a CAI in terms of intake air temp in the intake tube? The CAI MIGHT get about 5* cooler air in the intake tube.. Thats about it. The big azz open elements we run flow enough that there is likely zero power difference between the 2 setups. So, an open element is in no way a bad choice to use on your truck. Of course using an open element depends largely on the engine bay and air filter placement in the engine bay. In our case, the open element performs well in the stock location..
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
yes sir, i would have agree with you.. I read somewhere that for every 1 degree cooler air intake temp, you could gain 2-5 hp. So I guess the cooler the better? As far as the aftermarket goes, you have about the best you can get.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,008
Likes: 7
From: Austin, TX
So, why is it that I've seen quite a few engines gain power by removing the intake system all together and just pull in air from the turbo or throttle body? That's closer to the engine where air should be warmer.
Cold air has to be better for power. Colder air is more dense, therefore getting more air molecules into the cylinder at one time, but if the system doesn't flow very much volume, your fighting a losing fight when the open elements are moving a lot of air, quickly and still at extremely close to ambient temp. This is just my opinion of course. A well designed CAI should out perform our open elements, but I haven't seen it happen yet and in our tests, the open element is so close to ambient, the power gains would be neglible.
Cold air has to be better for power. Colder air is more dense, therefore getting more air molecules into the cylinder at one time, but if the system doesn't flow very much volume, your fighting a losing fight when the open elements are moving a lot of air, quickly and still at extremely close to ambient temp. This is just my opinion of course. A well designed CAI should out perform our open elements, but I haven't seen it happen yet and in our tests, the open element is so close to ambient, the power gains would be neglible.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
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.....Just wondering what kind of experiance you have with air intake sytems ?? . don't belive everthing you read and don't guess.....Lew
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
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Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,008
Likes: 7
From: Austin, TX
I have one on my 5.0L to make the air super cold so I can make big power LOL
Nah, I really only got a heat spacer for clearance purposes and longer intake runners can't hurt in a truck.
Nah, I really only got a heat spacer for clearance purposes and longer intake runners can't hurt in a truck.
Hotshot
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,958
Likes: 228
In my opinion CAI setups are just hot air intakes and they suck.
I run the factory air box with the I6/460 lower tube. Its a true cold air intake. The 5.0/5.8 tube is not nearly as well designed.
I also do not like oiled filter like KN, they are just a hassle to deal with.
We had the KN FIPK on my truck and on our 97 Mustang Cobra. Both ran worse and got worse fuel economy with them. They both really did not run well with the hot air intakes in 100 degree weather.
Another member of FTE recently removed his KN intake and went back to the stock air box and claims his truck runs better too.
Also the FIPK for the truck didn't seal up at the throttle body worth a damn. My friend's was the same way. He also had a MAF sensor fail because of KN.
I'll stick with good paper filters from Motorcraft, Wix, or Purolator.
If KN and other performance filter are so good, then why don't most high end or exotic cars come with them?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=58&Itemid=66
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=66&Itemid=76
K&N air filter or OEM, why OEM is better
do not use K&N air filter? - TDIClub Forums
http://www.dieselbombers.com/chevrol...r-testing.html
As far as the coolant lines on the TB go, from what I understand it actually helps with fuel atomization. I left mine hooked up.
I run the factory air box with the I6/460 lower tube. Its a true cold air intake. The 5.0/5.8 tube is not nearly as well designed.
I also do not like oiled filter like KN, they are just a hassle to deal with.
We had the KN FIPK on my truck and on our 97 Mustang Cobra. Both ran worse and got worse fuel economy with them. They both really did not run well with the hot air intakes in 100 degree weather.
Another member of FTE recently removed his KN intake and went back to the stock air box and claims his truck runs better too.
Also the FIPK for the truck didn't seal up at the throttle body worth a damn. My friend's was the same way. He also had a MAF sensor fail because of KN.
I'll stick with good paper filters from Motorcraft, Wix, or Purolator.
If KN and other performance filter are so good, then why don't most high end or exotic cars come with them?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=58&Itemid=66
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=66&Itemid=76
K&N air filter or OEM, why OEM is better
do not use K&N air filter? - TDIClub Forums
http://www.dieselbombers.com/chevrol...r-testing.html
As far as the coolant lines on the TB go, from what I understand it actually helps with fuel atomization. I left mine hooked up.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 11,273
Likes: 99
From: North Dakota
K&Ns causing issues running is due to installation error/improper/over oiling. The ONLY reason a K&N(or other oil covered filter) will cause a MAF to fail, is due to too much oil, and it getting sucked into the intake tube and sticking to everything.
I have ran K&Ns for years on everything from my DD to ATV. Never had a issue.
I have ran K&Ns for years on everything from my DD to ATV. Never had a issue.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
...Same thing here , use pro m MA meter and one of there cone filters where the air box was , removed the hoses to the TB , gets good unrestricted air flow , intake air temp is better than the stock system , just above ambient temp .....Lew
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
....Yeah there like the l 6 - 460 intake tube , they turn warm air to cold air , its majic LOL .....Yeah the clearence and longer runers can,t hurt , not sure how much they help on the upper intake heat ....Lew
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,558
Likes: 2
In my opinion CAI setups are just hot air intakes and they suck.
I run the factory air box with the I6/460 lower tube. Its a true cold air intake. The 5.0/5.8 tube is not nearly as well designed.
I also do not like oiled filter like KN, they are just a hassle to deal with.
We had the KN FIPK on my truck and on our 97 Mustang Cobra. Both ran worse and got worse fuel economy with them. They both really did not run well with the hot air intakes in 100 degree weather.
Another member of FTE recently removed his KN intake and went back to the stock air box and claims his truck runs better too.
Also the FIPK for the truck didn't seal up at the throttle body worth a damn. My friend's was the same way. He also had a MAF sensor fail because of KN.
I'll stick with good paper filters from Motorcraft, Wix, or Purolator.
If KN and other performance filter are so good, then why don't most high end or exotic cars come with them?
Air Filtration Test
Air Filter Filtration Test
K&N air filter or OEM, why OEM is better
do not use K&N air filter? - TDIClub Forums
http://www.dieselbombers.com/chevrol...r-testing.html
As far as the coolant lines on the TB go, from what I understand it actually helps with fuel atomization. I left mine hooked up.
I run the factory air box with the I6/460 lower tube. Its a true cold air intake. The 5.0/5.8 tube is not nearly as well designed.
I also do not like oiled filter like KN, they are just a hassle to deal with.
We had the KN FIPK on my truck and on our 97 Mustang Cobra. Both ran worse and got worse fuel economy with them. They both really did not run well with the hot air intakes in 100 degree weather.
Another member of FTE recently removed his KN intake and went back to the stock air box and claims his truck runs better too.
Also the FIPK for the truck didn't seal up at the throttle body worth a damn. My friend's was the same way. He also had a MAF sensor fail because of KN.
I'll stick with good paper filters from Motorcraft, Wix, or Purolator.
If KN and other performance filter are so good, then why don't most high end or exotic cars come with them?
Air Filtration Test
Air Filter Filtration Test
K&N air filter or OEM, why OEM is better
do not use K&N air filter? - TDIClub Forums
http://www.dieselbombers.com/chevrol...r-testing.html
As far as the coolant lines on the TB go, from what I understand it actually helps with fuel atomization. I left mine hooked up.
Hotshot
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,958
Likes: 228
I just know what setup works better on my vehicles. I don't think that the Ford engineers spent all that time and money designing intakes that don't work well.
Almost everyone that I know of that ever had a "hot air intake" said that their car/truck ran better once switching back to the stock setup.
I know you like them and thats fine. We have our difference of opinion on this subject.
The other thing that I have read regarding open element air filters is that the MAF doesn't get a consistant reading because of fan wash disrupting a steady flow of air, but I do not have any info on that.