Looking for a new 4WD truck.

First, very disappointed that almost all new trucks are auto trans only. Just don't like them.

Questions about the new Ford F150 6 speed auto.

Since planetary gear systems only have 3 speeds:

does the trans have a high and low range system or are there 2 planetary sets?

does the 4WD drive system have a high and low range like in the past?

are all six gears used or does it start in something like gear number 3 and go up to 6 for road use with gears 1 and 2 used for low range?

does it have a locking torque converter?

I like my old truck with the 5 speed manual but it has 250,000 on it and I would like to replace it.

Why is everything going automatic. These things are just not trucks any more. The are like sofas with wheels. A truck should be a simple work horse. Rubber floor so it can be hosed out. Manual trans with high and low transfer case with lock hubs. Why does a 100 pound front differential and shafts need to be spinning in July on a freeway? Why the need for all the vacuum systems to lock everything up. If it's not broke don't fix it. All I see in these new systems are giant repair bill down the road.

I just can't seem to find a basic truck any more. The Tundra is also now a giant automatic everything pig with a 6 speed auto. I have given up looking for a truck with regular windows. I don't want to pay for all this stuff which costs now and when I have to fix it later

Is a used truck with a 5 speed manual my only option.

 

4WD does have high and low range.
All 6 gears are used both up and down. 5 and 6 are both overdrives.
Yes, it does have a locking torque converter.

You can control the transmission either in full-manual mode (select a gear), or in a range mode (control the range the truck is allowed to shift into).

These days, automatic transmissions are better than manual transmissions in terms of fuel economy and matching the load to the proper gear. Have you tried one, or are you simply lamenting the lack of a manual option?

I believe you can get manual windows if you order an XL or fleet-series truck.

 

"These days, automatic transmissions are better than manual transmissions in terms of fuel economy and matching the load to the proper gear"

I kind of take issue with this statement. A manual transmission is much lighter then a monster 6 speed auto with torque converters and valve bodies and bands. I have driven new automatics. I live just off of I80 in Utah. I drive up a 15 mile grade each day. The autos never know what gear they want be in. Up, down constantly. And with the 3 speed planetary their is a limit to the rations. There are only 3 speeds plus that overdrive button on the previous F150. One gear is too the next is too low. The engine is over reved or it lugging. They also don't down shift when they should. The cost along down grade and don't compression brake.

I have my doubts that any automatic transmission will match my milage with a manual trans in the same truck and the same engine. Just the weight savings alone will make a difference. I will take a millage challenge any day of the week with matching engines with a 6 speed auto vs a 6 speed manual. The only 6 speed manual I know of is in the Ram but, it's not available with the smaller engines.

Then there is the rebuild issue. A 6 speed auto will be thousands to rebuild when the day comes.

Another example. The original T100 with a V6 was around 4500 pounds. The new Tundra is 6000. The engine and trans alone are more then the original payload of the T100. Now it is true that the V6 had little power, but many small 10,000 pound diesel delivery trucks use 3.0 L V6 engines with less then 200 HP. There is no reason for a standard pickup to continue to upscale on the power issue year after year. There is just no light 4 X 8 foot bed truck out there. Instead of going to 4L plus engines which deliver 20 MPG some of us need a light truck with a 4 X 8 bed with a small diesel which gets 26 - 30 MPG. 4 - 5 dollar per gallon fuel is not far off.

Back to he auto issue. It's almost only in the US where we are only given the auto only vehicles. Most of the world still has half of their cars and trucks using manual transmissions.

Now, for those who like automatics I encourage them to drive their preference. I would like some options.

The best 4WD systems are still the ones with manual hubs up front which are fully locked or free. On dry road it all stops turning. Want to back down a tight ramp with a trailer. Go into 4WD low with the hubs disengaged and the drive line will not bind up. Best of all they almost never break down. What is this nonsense of the hassle of locking hubs. It's just not an issue. for those who find it a hassle they can just lock them for the winter season or lock them all the time but I for one don't want 100 pounds of differential axel shafts, cv joints waring out in July while generating wasted heat sloshing 90 wt gear oil around. All this alone makes it impossible for an auto system to get the same millage as a manual control setup. I have worked on them and they are simple compared to vacuum actuators and clutches which need to spin up shafts and gears. The is one thing for certain in this world simple is always the best approach and cost less in the long run.

Somewhere along the road trucks stopped being trucks and turned into luxury rides. That's fine for some but there are people out there who need real trucks. I guess the fleet sales are the place to go.

 

FWIW, I am trading my 2009 V10 6 spd manual F250 for a new 3.5 Ecoboost F150 and the mileage difference between the auto V10 and manual V10 is negligible. The newer automatics have come a very long way since the old AOD and the new 6 speed autos are very, very nice. Upper gears can be locked out at your command and shifting can be done manually if desired. I sold my '04 F150 and got the F250 because I hated that auto so much. The only automatic I ever liked before the selectshift in the new F150 was the one in my Nissan Titan.

 

No offense, lhedrick, but a lot of your "facts" are wrong. I will do my best to help clear up some of your misconceptions.

First, planetary transmissions can have up to 9 possible ratios, not 3.

All six gears are available with the transfer case in high or low range. You should know that if you have test driven one.

The torque convertor does lock up.

I agree that a manual transmission will typically yield better gas mileage. However, automatics have the advantage of multiplying the engine's torque because they have a torque convertor. And now they have 6 speeds. The difference in fuel mileage between an auto and manual would be minimal.

The new 6-speed autos are a fresh design. They are far more durable and reliable than any older automatic because they were designed from the beginning with heavier trucks and higher tow/haul ratings in mind.

You can engine-brake with an automatic. The truck will downshift going downhill on it's own if you select "Tow/Haul" mode or you choose any gear you'd like. It works very effectively.

I think you are confused about how automatically-locking hubs work. They simply leave the hubs disengaged until 4WD is selected, then they lock - automatically. The only way you can keep hubs engaged while in 2WD is if you have manual hubs and I don't recommend doing that (especially all winter). Fuel mileage will suffer and you will accelerate wear on the front axle parts. There is no good reason to keep manual hubs engaged while in 2WD and there is no good reason to disengage the hubs while in 4WD. Manual hubs are just simply less convenient. And I don't know how old the trucks are that you've worked on, but I don't think anything has used engine vacuum to engage the hubs in 30 years. They are electrically actuated in new trucks and have a longer service life than old manual hubs. They are also much more reliable and maintenance-free.

I am also frustrated that you cannot get a manual transmission in most new trucks. But the new autos work so well that I don't really mind. The manufacturers are getting rid of manuals in trucks because the demand simply isn't there. Nobody orders a truck with a manual anymore. They would have to lose money to offer manual transmissions or pass the substantial cost on to you, the consumer. Having one transmission in all models keeps overall costs down and means parts and service will be cheaper.

I recently towed my 30' camper 200+ miles up long, steep grades the whole way home at high elevation. The new F150s are so quiet and shift so smooth that with the radio on I couldn't even tell what the truck was doing unless I was watching the tach. I could harldy even tell anything was behind the truck and I set the cruise at 75 MPH. It never dropped below 70 without me touching the gas. What's so horrible about that?

 

This is a place where people come to vent and get educated.

Currently the Dodge HD is the only full size truck that offers a manual trans. This is more about marketing than anything else right now and it may be working to some degree.

The Ford SD is the only truck that offers manual locking hubs. I really don't see the point. GM and Dodge have both proven that a HD truck can work hard without them.

Currently on the F-150 XL and STX, you can still get a manual transfer case shifter and roll down windows.

I'm getting a 2011 sometime soon. I'll gladly take all the newer modern conveniences over the very mundane high maintenance '88 that I had.

 

For guys that actually use the 4x4 a lot- farmers, construction workers, and those that live in snow country, the point of the manual locking hubs is security. If the autolocking system fails you can still lock the hubs. I would prefer to have it on my 2011 F150 as well but it's not available. You do not have to get out and lock the hubs every time, you use it- only if the automatic system fails.

 

WyoCobra.

No offense taken what so ever. The information you posted was exactly what I was after. I did not know that larger planetarys had been implemented.

I have worked on drive systems for a long time and I understand how the manual hubs work. I have had them off my trucks and serviced them a few times in the past 30 years. While I will always prefer manual the option is clearly disappearing. I have not driven the new f150 and will. I plan to lock up and make tight turns and other stuff. I will crawl under it and spin all the shafts up front by hand to see if it is all free.

One point. I just had a 1994 Subaru die at 275000 miles. Engine ok but fuel plump went out. It's just not worth fixing it up any longer. I am going to take my wife's 2007 and she is going to get a new Forester. The auto trans is a 1200 dollar option. That's a lot of beer. So a big complex 6 speed auto truck trans which can handle the torque of a big motor must add a lot to the price tag.

Thanks for all the great information, it was a big help in understanding what is in the new 6 speed trans.

L

 

What exactly is this going to tell you?

Unless you're on slippery surface, you risk damaging the drivetrain.

This is 4X4, not AWD.

 

Charlie,

In manual systems the front and rear axels are locked in the transfer case. In some cases when stuck in slick places this is an advantage on dry pavement it is a disadvantage. They rotate 1:1. Make a sharp turn where the front wheels travel a different distance then the rear and the drive line will start to bind up.

With a small v6 in 2WD it takes a bit of clutch work to back a trailer down a ramp and avoid obstacles at times. Like a crowed ramp at a river launch. First gear in high range is too high. Unlock the hubs shift the transfer case into low and now first gear low range back wheels only can back up at 1 mph without the front and back wheels fighting each other. My truck could not do this. I had to go to a scrap yard and get a set of hubs. With out them in 4WD the system is full locked which at times cause a problem. Manual control gives any setup we want. High, low locked, unlocked any thing we need.

I want to find out if the auto will do the same thing. I have a steep 24 percent grade driveway which is narrow. Backing a trailer down it is tricky and adjustments need to be made on the way down. 2 WD low works perfectly and has all the power needed and is nice and slow.

I want to know I can do the same with an auto 4WD system. Thats why the test with tight turns in 4WD low.

 

It will bind.

 

If it binds then the problem can be eliminated with manual hubs. Inexpensive and useful. In this case the automatic systems work against us to some degree by assuming we want the drive line fully locked when conditions require something different. Add manual hubs to the automatic system and we gain control and add functionality.

I am almost 60 years old. I have been a cyclist all my life. I always sense when the RPM is not right and shift. With 10 speed clusters we can make small adjustment and keep the pressure on the peddles at the level we want them. This can never be done with an automatic device which would be reasonable in weight or cost effective. Manual systems offer control which automated systems often take away.

There is a place for both systems but, sadly the market is not large enough for both.

 

You will not ever be able to have manual hubs in a modern half ton pickup. They have all gone to a half shaft design and usuall split power at the differential.

 

How long is your driveway?
I'm really hoping that 24% grade is a typo. That's roughly 125ft of elevation in 1/10th of a mile (528 horizontal feet).

I'm sorry that you have such an apparent dislike of the newer transmission and drive systems. Sure they are a little more complex, but at times they are more user/consumer friendly...I said "at times".

Remember that the new 6spd can be shifted "manually" so if you wanted to eliminate gear hunting on inclines, you can lock out a particular gear when in manual mode.

 

there is a way for 2wd low on the new trucks. All you have to do is apply vacuum to the frt hubs while in 4x4. looping the 4wd solenoid vacuum lines is the easiest way to do this and the computer will not log a code either. the frt hubs are vacuum disengaged (2wd) or no vacuum for 4wd