Still no good S/C's or Turbo kits for v10?
#16
04-29-2012, 10:29 AM
There's no safe forced induction setup the same way one forced induction method is no worse than others. Each (turbo/blower/nitrous) have their pluses and minuses. I've seen people put hundreds of bottles through an engine and be just fine, and I've seen people blow up on the dyno the first time they spray it.
Nitrous's main advantages are that it's not always on, putting a drag on your engine, not killing mileage, when you don't need the power, and best of all, it has it's own cooling. Then there's the ease and low cost of installation as opposed to the others. The downsides, you run out of the bottle, and it's more of a pay as you go deal. If you end up being one of the people who goes through hundreds of bottles, you will come to a point where you say "dammit, I should've gotten a blower/turbo".
One of the problems with nitrous, and why it gets its bad reputation, is that the flow of the nozzles is constant throughout the RPM range you spray it at (the basic kits that is, not talking two stage or other stuff). Meaning if you try and add a 200 shot off idle, it will spray 200hp worth of air into your engine at 650 rpm. That's when stuff starts blowing up usually, when people spray the nitrous too early, and more nitrous than the engine can flow at that RPM. There are some items to make it pretty much idiot proof though. The fast and the furious button mounted on the steering wheel style is by far what gets people in trouble the most. Most kits nowadays come with wide open throttle switches, and most people who want to play it safe add a few other switches - fuel pressure safety switch and digital window rpm switch come to mind. First one only opens the solenoids when you have the gas pedal mashed fully, so that it won't come on at part throttle. Second, only turns on the nitrous if there is enough fuel pressure on the rail; not gonna turn it on if it's gonna run lean. Last one keeps the nitrous on for only a period of time between the RPMs you set the window at.
The disadvantage with our particular engines is that they're not exactly known for their high rpm performance, so if you're gonna spray from 4000 to 5000 rpm, you're not gonna be going anywhere fast... personally, below 3500-4000, you're taking chances with your engine.
Most of my experience with Nitrous comes from 4.6 dohc motors though, so starting it at 4k+ rpm and running through ~6500 gives me enough of a window at the track to basically run on nitrous the whole time.
Honestly, I wouldn't go with forced induction on these trucks. They're just too big and heavy to go fast; yes, the diesels do ok, but at what cost? You're better off buying something smaller and faster to go fast with. You're much better off IMO with some nasty gears some exhaust work, and a tune.
Nitrous's main advantages are that it's not always on, putting a drag on your engine, not killing mileage, when you don't need the power, and best of all, it has it's own cooling. Then there's the ease and low cost of installation as opposed to the others. The downsides, you run out of the bottle, and it's more of a pay as you go deal. If you end up being one of the people who goes through hundreds of bottles, you will come to a point where you say "dammit, I should've gotten a blower/turbo".
One of the problems with nitrous, and why it gets its bad reputation, is that the flow of the nozzles is constant throughout the RPM range you spray it at (the basic kits that is, not talking two stage or other stuff). Meaning if you try and add a 200 shot off idle, it will spray 200hp worth of air into your engine at 650 rpm. That's when stuff starts blowing up usually, when people spray the nitrous too early, and more nitrous than the engine can flow at that RPM. There are some items to make it pretty much idiot proof though. The fast and the furious button mounted on the steering wheel style is by far what gets people in trouble the most. Most kits nowadays come with wide open throttle switches, and most people who want to play it safe add a few other switches - fuel pressure safety switch and digital window rpm switch come to mind. First one only opens the solenoids when you have the gas pedal mashed fully, so that it won't come on at part throttle. Second, only turns on the nitrous if there is enough fuel pressure on the rail; not gonna turn it on if it's gonna run lean. Last one keeps the nitrous on for only a period of time between the RPMs you set the window at.
The disadvantage with our particular engines is that they're not exactly known for their high rpm performance, so if you're gonna spray from 4000 to 5000 rpm, you're not gonna be going anywhere fast... personally, below 3500-4000, you're taking chances with your engine.
Most of my experience with Nitrous comes from 4.6 dohc motors though, so starting it at 4k+ rpm and running through ~6500 gives me enough of a window at the track to basically run on nitrous the whole time.
Honestly, I wouldn't go with forced induction on these trucks. They're just too big and heavy to go fast; yes, the diesels do ok, but at what cost? You're better off buying something smaller and faster to go fast with. You're much better off IMO with some nasty gears some exhaust work, and a tune.
03 Marauder w/Trilogy #105
#18
04-29-2012, 05:48 PM
It is constructive.
You ask someone else to figure out an answer for you by clicking on a link that has been posted, when you can do that yourself. You give no reason as to why you can't obtain your own answer, yet you want someone else to do it for you.
All you have to do is move your mouse pointer over the link, click on it, go to the appropriate location on the web page that pops up, input the necessary information, and you'll have your answer. But you would rather type a post asking someone else to do that for you. Okay, no problem. FTE is a really friendly place, and if someone wants to do the work for you because you don't want to, that's all well and good, but don't get your knickers in a bunch because I find it incredible you're too lazy to do it yourself.
Stewart
You ask someone else to figure out an answer for you by clicking on a link that has been posted, when you can do that yourself. You give no reason as to why you can't obtain your own answer, yet you want someone else to do it for you.
All you have to do is move your mouse pointer over the link, click on it, go to the appropriate location on the web page that pops up, input the necessary information, and you'll have your answer. But you would rather type a post asking someone else to do that for you. Okay, no problem. FTE is a really friendly place, and if someone wants to do the work for you because you don't want to, that's all well and good, but don't get your knickers in a bunch because I find it incredible you're too lazy to do it yourself.
Stewart
#19
04-29-2012, 06:49 PM
#20
04-30-2012, 08:21 AM
Dear Stewart_H,
First, you might be a moderator on this forum. However, as long as I am using decent language, it is my prerogative to ask whatever question I like to any other user. I don't understand why you are adopting such an aggressive tone.
Second, I did try to get the information I am looking for from the weblinks thankfully provided by Fosters. Big sorry if I don't manage. This is very technical and I simply don't know what to do to calculate the actual vehicle speed with my new gears (now 4.56) and new tires (now 35x12.5x20) when the speedometer indicates 60 mph.
First, you might be a moderator on this forum. However, as long as I am using decent language, it is my prerogative to ask whatever question I like to any other user. I don't understand why you are adopting such an aggressive tone.
Second, I did try to get the information I am looking for from the weblinks thankfully provided by Fosters. Big sorry if I don't manage. This is very technical and I simply don't know what to do to calculate the actual vehicle speed with my new gears (now 4.56) and new tires (now 35x12.5x20) when the speedometer indicates 60 mph.
#21
04-30-2012, 03:30 PM
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You WILL run into problems boosting a ford Modular engine. I have a turbo charged 2004 Mustang that I put a 5.4 in. I started off putting a turbo on the stock 4.6 which is the shorter cousin of the 6.8L V10. at 7lbs of boost it made close to 500whp but at the same time merged two pistons/cylinders together. the ford 4.6, 5.4, and 6.8L are all the same family and have the same construction, which are iron crankshafts, and powdered steel rods and pistons. this combination can only handle 400hp which is about 4lbs of boost.(turbo) 6lbs(S/C)(SC's use 1/3 of the power they make). You would have to build the engine from the ground up with Forged rods,pistons, crank, performance bearings, Machining the block/heads, Head gaskets, Oil Pump, Arp fasteners through out, etc...
My point is that without Mechanical Knowledge as you put it, You are going to be without a vehicle and a LOT of $$$ very quickly. You would be better off the throw a PSD of Cummins in there and have a lot better of a platform to start on.
When it comes to Power Adders on Ford Modulars I can tell you just about anything you need to know. Ive had 3 different motors in my Mustang, a V10 Excursion and a 6.0 Excursion. please please please hear me out on this one. I thought the same thing when I boosted my mustang now I have car that i bought for 13k with about 10k additional in the motor alone.
My point is that without Mechanical Knowledge as you put it, You are going to be without a vehicle and a LOT of $$$ very quickly. You would be better off the throw a PSD of Cummins in there and have a lot better of a platform to start on.
When it comes to Power Adders on Ford Modulars I can tell you just about anything you need to know. Ive had 3 different motors in my Mustang, a V10 Excursion and a 6.0 Excursion. please please please hear me out on this one. I thought the same thing when I boosted my mustang now I have car that i bought for 13k with about 10k additional in the motor alone.
#22
04-30-2012, 03:32 PM
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#23
04-30-2012, 03:53 PM
You WILL run into problems boosting a ford Modular engine. I have a turbo charged 2004 Mustang that I put a 5.4 in. I started off putting a turbo on the stock 4.6 which is the shorter cousin of the 6.8L V10. at 7lbs of boost it made close to 500whp but at the same time merged two pistons/cylinders together. the ford 4.6, 5.4, and 6.8L are all the same family and have the same construction, which are iron crankshafts, and powdered steel rods and pistons. this combination can only handle 400hp which is about 4lbs of boost.(turbo) 6lbs(S/C)(SC's use 1/3 of the power they make). You would have to build the engine from the ground up with Forged rods,pistons, crank, performance bearings, Machining the block/heads, Head gaskets, Oil Pump, Arp fasteners through out, etc...
My point is that without Mechanical Knowledge as you put it, You are going to be without a vehicle and a LOT of $$$ very quickly. You would be better off the throw a PSD of Cummins in there and have a lot better of a platform to start on.
When it comes to Power Adders on Ford Modulars I can tell you just about anything you need to know. Ive had 3 different motors in my Mustang, a V10 Excursion and a 6.0 Excursion. please please please hear me out on this one. I thought the same thing when I boosted my mustang now I have car that i bought for 13k with about 10k additional in the motor alone.
My point is that without Mechanical Knowledge as you put it, You are going to be without a vehicle and a LOT of $$$ very quickly. You would be better off the throw a PSD of Cummins in there and have a lot better of a platform to start on.
When it comes to Power Adders on Ford Modulars I can tell you just about anything you need to know. Ive had 3 different motors in my Mustang, a V10 Excursion and a 6.0 Excursion. please please please hear me out on this one. I thought the same thing when I boosted my mustang now I have car that i bought for 13k with about 10k additional in the motor alone.
Detonation is usually the death of these mod motors. They don't like it nor do they like to be over rev'd without some serious work. Don't abuse them too badly and they come back for more. I've had mine rev'd over 6K RPM and it didn't go boom but then again I don't do it all the time bouncing off the rev limiter. If you go forced induction make sure you have someone reputable tune it for you. It will add about $1000 to the cost but is worth EVERY penny from preventing your engine from destroying itself.
#24
04-30-2012, 04:51 PM
I don't understand why you are adopting such an aggressive tone.
Second, I did try to get the information I am looking for from the weblinks thankfully provided by Fosters. Big sorry if I don't manage. This is very technical and I simply don't know what to do to calculate the actual vehicle speed with my new gears (now 4.56) and new tires (now 35x12.5x20) when the speedometer indicates 60 mph.
If you go back and re-read my previous post, I literally stated, "You give no reason as to why you can't obtain your own answer, yet you want someone else to do it for you."
All you had to do was let us know you needed a little help to figure it out.
I can't understand anything electrical. Literally, my brain doesn't grasp wiring (positive, negative, neutral, ground, etc) or anything to do with electrical diagnostics. Guys will talk about pin outs and Ohm readings and such and I'm lost. So I understand not being able to figure things out. All you have to do is let us know that's what the problem is, otherwise it just looks like you don't wanna click on the link and do the work yourself.
Stewart
#25
04-30-2012, 04:55 PM
#26
04-30-2012, 05:04 PM
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I'm not saying its not possible. I'm just saying my experience. My first engine leg go on the dyno while it was being tuned, had nothing to do with my driving or anything. And also turbo boost and supercharger boost are not the same. So your 11lbs can be my 6 lbs. all of engines have been tuned by reputable tuners. I'm just going on my knowledge of 4.6s and 5.4s. Who knows maybe the v10 spreads the power out better all I know is that the 5.4s and 6.8s are identical besides it have 2 more cylinders
#27
04-30-2012, 05:37 PM
I'm not saying its not possible. I'm just saying my experience. My first engine leg go on the dyno while it was being tuned, had nothing to do with my driving or anything. And also turbo boost and supercharger boost are not the same. So your 11lbs can be my 6 lbs. all of engines have been tuned by reputable tuners. I'm just going on my knowledge of 4.6s and 5.4s. Who knows maybe the v10 spreads the power out better all I know is that the 5.4s and 6.8s are identical besides it have 2 more cylinders
I do know my brother spent a TON of $$$ on his 4.6 DOHC cobra motor, I am sure at least 15K. It was built for FI but never got there, even at 8.9:1 it put down a little over 300hp to the wheels so probably around 350hp at the flywheel. So yes, I know you can spend a lot on them.
I cannot speak to who tuned your motor but can assure you if I ever go FI on any other vehicle I own I know who will dyno tune it.
#28
05-01-2012, 12:20 AM
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I'm not Saying that going fi is wrong. All I'm trying to do is shed light on both sides. Nobody ever told me the risks when I got mine done, but I might have stepped back and thought about it a little more if somebody had. I wasn't prepared to spend the extra money I had to, to get it running again. I love the idea of putting a power adder on a v10, I thought about it when I had my v10 x, but I just wanna give people a heads up that there are a LOT of things that can go wrong real quick. Make sure you get a wideband a/f gauge, fuel pressure, and boost gauge. And watch them closely. A kenne bell boost-a-pump is a good idea or daul pumps. Fuel delivery is a must on boosted vehicles.
#29
05-01-2012, 03:03 AM
I'd love to run across a blown V-10. A motor that big with FI just sounds....well like a ton of fun 
nice INCORRECT generalization. standard fluff you'll find most places. Head over to S197 forum for some real life #'s and see what the 4.6/5.4 can actually handle day in and day out
and again. I'd be pointing fingers all over that Tuner who blew the motor. He most likely screwed up the A/F ratio and melted a cylinder...or over-revved it and threw a valve.
The 4.6 and 5.4 LOVE BOOST. 6 psi is nothing to them, and thousands of guys run 10 psi all day long with zero issues. I ran 6 psi NON-Intercooled on my 06 5.4 3v with zero issues. Tons of fun until it got heat soaked
Good advice 
most people will never have an issues...but there is always that small percentage. I know Roush blew up a metric butt-ton of motors due to crappy tuning in cold weather. Even the best screw it up at times
. Know what you're getting into and be prepared for the worst.
this combination can only handle 400hp which is about 4lbs of boost.(turbo) 6lbs(S/C)(SC's use 1/3 of the power they make). You would have to build the engine from the ground up with Forged rods,pistons, crank, performance bearings, Machining the block/heads, Head gaskets, Oil Pump, Arp fasteners through out, etc...
The 4.6 and 5.4 LOVE BOOST. 6 psi is nothing to them, and thousands of guys run 10 psi all day long with zero issues. I ran 6 psi NON-Intercooled on my 06 5.4 3v with zero issues. Tons of fun until it got heat soaked
I'm not Saying that going fi is wrong. All I'm trying to do is shed light on both sides. Nobody ever told me the risks when I got mine done, but I might have stepped back and thought about it a little more if somebody had.
I just wanna give people a heads up that there are a LOT of things that can go wrong real quick. Make sure you get a wideband a/f gauge, fuel pressure, and boost gauge. And watch them closely.
A kenne bell boost-a-pump is a good idea or daul pumps. Fuel delivery is a must on boosted vehicles.
I just wanna give people a heads up that there are a LOT of things that can go wrong real quick. Make sure you get a wideband a/f gauge, fuel pressure, and boost gauge. And watch them closely.
A kenne bell boost-a-pump is a good idea or daul pumps. Fuel delivery is a must on boosted vehicles.
most people will never have an issues...but there is always that small percentage. I know Roush blew up a metric butt-ton of motors due to crappy tuning in cold weather. Even the best screw it up at times
. Know what you're getting into and be prepared for the worst.
#30
05-01-2012, 02:18 PM
The lift will have no effect on your speedometer readings but the 35"s and the 4.56 gears will. The 35"s will make your speedo 10.67% too slow but the 4.56 gears make up for it quite a bit.
Do you have a GPS? If so, most of them have a "speedometer" function that you can use to verify your speedo.
Do you have a GPS? If so, most of them have a "speedometer" function that you can use to verify your speedo.