First off, thanks to all of you who post (and answer) here regularly. I've learned a great deal just reading through the threads and I'm really enjoying my F-1.

I'm interested in improving the brakes on my 51 (license plate PHAT 51) and ran across an article on the web on "vented drum" brakes. Apparently this was done years ago before disks for racing on the dry lakes in california and did great things for the common fade problems etc. There have been some recent articles about this in the magazines (see www.chtopping.com if you want to read them) and I'd like to know if any of you have any experience with this procedure - it was new to me.

Seems like this could be an interim step between a full on disk setup and the stock brakes. I'd like to go ahead and install a manual dual line master cylinder suitable for disks (not too hard and not much $) and then do the drum upgrade and see how it works out. Save a few bucks right now (a good thing) and then go ahead with the disks later on if need be.

Your thoughts / comments would be most appreciated as I am an old truck newby and value your experience.

Thanks!

 

Never heard of vented drums, but I've seen master cylinders with power boosters advertised (anyone have experience with these?)

 

Oil Leak

Vented drums may help as you stated, but only in a performance application where heat build-up and the associated brake fade occur. I don't think you would notice any improved braking at all in normal driving. If you live in a mountainous region, perhaps you would see benefit. Have you ever experienced brake fade in a mountainous area. You won't forget it ever.

Do you have good brakes when you start out, and then they heat up gradually and go away? Or are they just unsatisfactory period.

You will notice a big improvement with power brakes or a front disk conversion. This is where the 50s trucks come up short. Before the stockers get upset with me. I realize your stock brakes may be perfectly acceptable to you if you don't regularly cruise at 75 MPH.

 

'fenders...thanks for the input. Guess I hadn't really thought about it...my brakes are fine around town - or at least as good as any 50's brakes can be. You have to keep up with the adjustment or they are prone to pulling one way or the other. I do want to drive my truck further away (to shows and rod runs) so I'll likely be cruising at a higher speed and that's where the drums limitations will really show up.

What do you think of disk/drum setup with a manual master cylinder? Better than drum/drum and still save a little money? I like manual brakes but can the power booster can be added later if manual brakes not adequate? Just trying to stay on a tight budget and still have a reliable & safe truck to drive as it won't be a trailer queen - I like driving it!

 

Dude,

'fenders is right (and everyone knows it pains me to say that). Vented brake drums have some value in racing applications where constant and hard use of the brakes is happening and it helps if you're going fast enough to get the cool air in and the hot air out. You could also duct some air through them but then you need to worry about pumping in dust and rain water as well.

You would probably get as much value from very careful selection of the brake shoe material.

In the end however, power assist and disc brakes are what you want.

You ge what you pay for.

 

You get what you pay for! Amen to that. You'd think I've BTDT enough to remember but yet the budget has me thinking cheap and I probably wouldn't be very happy with the results. Just had never heard of vented drums and the idea really grabbed me. But what you and Fenders have said makes good sense. I'll go with a disk/drum set up and save the bucks somewhere else...maybe it will live in primer another few months! Works for me - Thanks!

 

hey oilleak's/i have owned a few car's and truck's with manuel drum brake's,as long as you keep them adjustedand no wheel cyl. leak's you should be fine.i use to street race a 65' fury with manuel drum's and never had a problem.a good idea is to use an adjustable proportioning valve and adjust your brake balance front to rear,it will take a little time but it work's well.also you can use braided stainless brake hose's,thay do not get soft and expand and cause pedal fade.hope this help's/scott.

 

Oil Leaks

I may be misunderstanding what you plan to do. I assume you are staying with a master cylinder under the floor? If I were on a tight budget, I think I would try to find a kit that uses a easy to find power booster, then get a used one. Boosters are fairly reliable and you could probably get a used one real cheap. My brakes are on the firewall, someone here is more knowledgable on your underfloor options. You'll probably get some specific option recommendations soon. You'll need an appropriate master at the same time you install disks. I am pretty sure the calipers larger fluid capacity will require it. I could be all wet, perhaps the proportioning valve can handle this issue.

 

I would advise AGAINST venting drums on a driver unless you can absolutely guarantee against water ingress. And live in the desert.

Heat fades drum brakes, water makes them useless. Drilling holes in the backing plates was a fad decades ago that got more than one person into a world of hurts. I dont know how effective a small vent with water deflectors would be anyway, sounds like a snake oil fix to this old fart.

Another thing to watch for is the shoe lining material composition. Those early drums are a soft cast iron and going to a modern bonded lining will cause rapid drum wear resulting in a groove.
Stick to the good old rivets.

 

Something else that use'd to be popular was to find some finned aluminum drums off of Buicks(probly some other BIG GM cars also),and have them drilled for the Ford wheel lug pattern.Worked for old Jeeps too.Maybe a cheap alternative for awhile?Al

 

I have a 67 Galaxie with manual drums all around and the only time I had the brakes fade in 100k is when I had 8 people in the car and had to do a panic stop from 70 mph. I also have a 64 F100 with manual drums all around, and the only time I had fade was when I was racing around town and was stopping and accelerating constantly.(to be 17 again) I have a 52 F-2 I use as a daily driver in the summer, and I redid the brakes all around and it stops on a dime from 50mph. If you have problems with the brakes, you have problems mechanically, or problems with your driving. The brakes were designed to stop the truck loaded, with an extra 1000lbs in the bed for an F1, which I'm sure most people aren't running around loaded.

I would highly recommend the dual chamber master cylinder as I've had failures and it's scary, although even with the dual chamber master cylinder you don't get that much pedal.

 

Aerostar vans came with a cast aluminuim bracket for the power brakes that takes very little to install onto your firewall. Aerostars usually had disk-drum setups and there should be truck loads of them at the local wrecking yards. Mine works great as far as that part goes, too bad my shoes are terrible. I've been told what these guys are telling you, when you get new shoes or get them rebuilt make sure you get the "soft" stuff. Brake failure is scary (trust me). Also, the porportional valves are wonders to your brakes, these have to be mail ordered as none of these pathetic auto parts stores carry them (grrr), really helps keep your tail from coming up beside you after you modify your brakes.

Clayton

 

Folks,
As a long-time owner of a '59 Buick Lesabre convertible with the coveted finned aluminum brake drums, I can attest to the fact that they are no longer 'cheap' (thank you nostalgia rods). And no, they were not used by any other GM division.
Aren't the 68-72 F100 front drum brakes larger? Perhaps you could adapt the backing plates, hubs, and drums to the earlier spindles.
But I think if you add up the cost of the parts involved, the labor invested, and weigh it against the final product versus the ECI disk kit, you will go for the disk brakes.
Adios,
Brett

 

Drum brakes are a lot better then people think. Especially with some of the newer linings. There only real weakness is water. Get used to dragging the brakes a little when there wet and you will do just fine.

If I was going for a cheap (I love cheap) drum upgrade, I would look for bigger drums. When I was putting my 49 f-1 on the road a couple of years ago I was faced with worn out front drums. Given that I'm cheap and could not find front replacements at Autozone, I started poking around the local you pick parts yard and came up with two 11" by 2 1/4" drums that fit perfectly on the front. I'm not certain what ford product that they came from because they were already off of the vehicle. My best guess would be a newer Ford PU.

Two inch shoes work just fine with the wider drums, but for more stopping power, you could use 2 1/4" shoes. To use the wider shoes you would need to figure out how to move the wheel cylinder (center) out 1/8". Three options could work.

1. change backing plate (from original drum)
2. change wheel cylinder (from original baking plate or simular width shoes)
3. shim original wheel cylinder out 1/8".

Should work fine except, when you start messing with cylinder and/or brake shoe size, you will probably also alter the front rear brake bias. This will void your original factory warrantee and potentially weaken any potential legal action where you are trying to hold Ford liable for damages due to their poor design. You know, rollover, etc. Actually I don't think the front/rear brake bias is all that great anyway. It may be maximized for a loaded truck and that doesn't happen that much. So, there probably isn't that much to mess up. Good luck with it.

 

Don,
I went to the 'Lonestar Roundup' rod run, and saw some interesting drum brake stuff. They are reproducing the Buick/Lincoln parts and also the '59 Police Special 2-1/4"wide rear drum kits but they are not cheap. That got me digging in my 'Library' and found a '75 Lakewood Metallic Linings listings of what size came on what for potential junkyard scrounging:

Front Drum 11-1/32"x 3": '65-70 Ford Galaxy Station Wagon, '65-68 Merc Pass HD and Station Wagon, '69 Merc Pass. w/390/429, '70 Merc 8cyl and Station Wagon, '71-72 Merc all.

Front Drum 11-1/32"x 2-1/2": '65-70 Ford Galaxy exc. Station Wagon, '65-68 Merc Std. Pass., '69 Merc Std. Pass exc. w/390/429, '70 Merc 6cyl.

Rear Drum 11-1/32" x 2-1/4" comes on just about any fullsize 9" rear Ford and Merc '65 on up.

3" wide oughta stop ya. The front rear bias is a compromise anyway, between unloaded and fully loaded (huge difference). You can tune this yourself by using different diameter wheel cylinders in the rear.
Adios,
Brett