GM is showing a profit and has been for a while now. And the taxpayer's stake in the company is now already down to about 30%. My remark about the government making sure GM stays in business was meant (mostly) as a wisecrack.

"High road". That's the road that losers take. Ford needs to get down in the trenches and fight for market share like the rest of us have to do.This reminds me of how AMC used to claim "The only race we care about is the human race" because their cars couldn't keep up with a snail. As soon as their new generation V8 engine that they had quietly been working on hit the streets in 66-67 they were racing again! A cop-out is a cop-out. Ford needs to step up on this. Their new 6.7 was supposed to put them back up front after years of being the back marker in the diesel pick-up world. Instead we have "High Ground". Same with the 6.2, this was supposed to put things right after years of being the back marker in the gas world with the Triton, but I am not impressed (look at the first link in my previous post). I'm pushing 50, but I still haven't outgrown enjoying being in front, "leading the parade" [Eagles: "Ole '55"] nor have I developed a taste for sucking dust yet.

Ford, I feel like that woman who told the president: "I'm tired of defending you".

All the more reason why Ford needs to speak up. Their silence on this matter is deafening.
Regards, Eric

 

Thanks to filing bankruptcy thus shafting every vendor or person they owed money to while at the same time taking money from the taxpayer.

Sometimes the high road is taken when one is smart enough to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision based on that.

 

I run my own business as I'm sure a lot of guys here do. I have to fight for every sale I make and every dollar I get. I don't know of ANY business (except for Ford apparently) who can afford to take their customers for granted. I also think they are milking the "Good Will" wave a bit too much but that is only going to carry them only so far. Americans have disgustingly short memories. (They have already forgot which political party got us in this mess 2 years ago. It was the same party that began the auto bail-out too!) Once this "Good Will" honeymoon is over, it is going to be all about what Ford brings to the table. At that point, it had better be more than what they are bringing now.

And sometimes the "high road" is taken when one knows they will get knocked on their rear if they step into the ring.
Regards, Eric

 

So your going to accept what a Media source is going to "prove" to you without first hand experience? Why would Ford need to speak up? If ANY auto manufacturer had to speak up about being "supposedly" inferior in the eyes of the media ( and by media I mean magazine, TV, internet ) they would spend ALOT of money trying to defend themselves. If that were the case Ford, GM and lately Toyota would be out of business. Come to think of it, one of those 3 actually almost DID go out of business.

So you would rather settle for an interior your not crazy about in a 60K dollar truck just to get up that hill faster. That's like saying your wouldn't want a smoking hot wife because it takes her 15 minutes longer to do the dishes..........Heaven forbid!

Why? Really, so if you don't hear/read what you want to read you can beat a dead horse?

Regards, The Dead Horse

 

But I guess you have NO PROBLEM having a portion of "dollar" you got go to help a business **** their way out of billions and billions of dollars because of miss management. Let's talk about taking things for granted again?

Good Will wave? How many Ford commericals out there advertise that they didn't take a bailout? Quite frankly, ALL the manufacturers were called out and Ford was the first to respond in a big way. Without having to rub salt in the wounds of GM or Dodge.

Yeah, because we all know Ford is taking a beating in the media right now about their inadequate products. Fusion, Mustang, F-150........but albiet us to fall for media propaganda.......

Or the "high road" could mean let the opinions of others cloud your preception of what the truth might be........

Regards, The Truth

 

If I was building a product that I felt was falsely represented in a comparison I would demand a retest with unbiased third party observers present. That fact that Ford hasn't says to me that they either don't feel they would do any better in a retest or they don't care. Neither one of which is acceptable to me. Ford needs to make a little more effort if they want my money or else someone else who is trying harder is going to get it. It's not just this one test that is showing this new 6.7 to be less than what Ford promised us.

Invalid analogy. I do prefer substance over flash, performance over looks though.

No, I hoping that, as a result of all the internet grumbling going on now about the first test, these next tests will have unbiased third party observers present and I genuinely want to know how this new 6.2 stands up to it's gas engine competition AND the diesels too. That's actually the power train I've been thinking about. It's been a LONG wait for a decent gas engine from Ford. I'd really like to semi-retire both my ancient E350 and my ancient D350. They are actually still good trucks but their lack of an overdrive and lack of fuel injection is wearing thin now that fuel is going back up again. Plus, I have driven old stuff for so long I figure it's my turn to have something new and nice. I'm only going to do it just this once and I want the best truck there is. I do love my old stuff too though. The only reason the Club Wagon is still around after all these years is because I'm a hopeless sentimentalist. It's for sale now though.

 

I had a big problem with the auto bailouts. It's one of the many reasons why I voted the guy out of office who started them.


Nevertheless, Ford IS riding a goodwill wave right now. We have GM guys here on this site now saying that they want to buy a Ford cause they are ticked about the bailouts. You could make the argument that we all need to buy GMs so that GM can make lots of money so that we all will make a good return on our investment.
Me? I'm just gonna buy the truck that gives me the best warranty, is fairly efficient, and that can pass you on the highway.


That's all real nice. Problem is I'm not in the market for any of those. The comparisons I'm seeing don't have the F-250/F350 looking too good.

Opinions mean nothing to me. Empirical data does. A guy would be a fool to just simply go by the-seat-of-his-pants when spending $50,000-$60,000 for a truck. And it would be kinda hard to get a salesman to agree to let you hook up a heavy trailer to his demo so you can go make some timed passes.

The next truck I buy will probably be my last. I expect something that I spend that kind of money for to last me at least 20 years which puts me to 70 years of age. Doubt I'll need another one at that point. So yeah, you are darn right I am going to gather as much info as I can from as many sources as possible so I can be sure I'm am getting the best truck on Earth and something that won't be obsolete 3 years from now before I plop my money down. So far the Ford ain't looking too good.
Hugs and Kisses, Eric

 

Its been out for quite a while, the 6.8l. The 3V 6.8l is quite powerful.

 

On that thread where the Ford engineer was answering our questions, even he admitted that the V10's fuel economy was less than stellar. That poor fuel economy was in fact one of the driving forces behind the 6.2's development and is also the reason why the V10 is now being dropped from the pick-ups. (The other driving force behind the 6.2 was of course the need to have a V8 that could go toe to toe with the competition's V8s, something the Triton wasn't up to.)
Regards, Eric

 

I hope the 6.2L V8 gas is not a modular. I have not been reading up on it, mainly because I have about given up hope of Ford building another GOOD gas motor.
I hope the 6.2L is that motor. I guess I need to stop by the 6.2 board & get informed better.

Craig

 

It appears to me the people with such hatred for modulars are still stuck back in the old pushrod 302, 351, 460 and etc days. Ignorance mostly. I own both schools of engine myself and see exactly what each is. FYI for anyone who doesn't know Ford will be continuing to make modulars.

 

Hola Man, you sound like you just want to whine about the Ford. Do you have your CDL? Do you plan on towing 19k lb's at over 9200ft elevation on a constant basis? Do you know how well the trucks compare at lower elevations? Seriously, there are FAR more things to consider than a test that was performed by Chevy biased participants. I'm not saying the Chevy didn't beat the Ford up the hill, but honestly I could care less. I don't pull that weight and the Ford has far more improvements over the Chevy that a couple extra minutes over a 9200ft mountain pass isn't a big deal. I think it's laughable that you would even consider this a deciding factor in chevy vs ford. I'll just chalk it up to inexperience.

Go take a look at some of the audio comparisons between the chevy and ford towing uphill. The Chevy is SCREAMING... the Ford is calm and quiet. I'll take that any day over getting up a hill slightly faster. It's absolutely amazing how a noisy engine affects you during a long drive. Not to mention the wife and kids. Saving a minute up a hill isn't going to allow you to make more money or do more work so why make decisions based on that?

The exhaust braking may or may not be able to be solved by a new PCM flash, but honestly a few more brake pedal presses isn't a deal breaker in my book either. Like I said before, most people do not tow that heavy. Pikcuptrucks.com description of the "brake smell" is completely irrelevant. They didn't bother to figure out where it was coming from so it's useless chatter on their part. I would like to see this improved though.

The duramax and allison are a fantastic combo, but I wouldn't expect any less after a decades worth of engine and tranny improvements. So far the new Ford diesel has been more reliable than the duramax was the first few years. That's a very good sign. This could all change of course, but the new engine is excellent so far.

 

other than the enormous size, the mod motors are very good engines. they make very good power for their small size.

 

Yep they are very wide, however are not overly heavy.

 

I, for one, am not stuck in the stone ages. This is a video of my daily driver/beater M.B. 400E with a DOHC port fuel injected 4.2 liter V-8 and super tall 2.24 to 1 rear gears spanking a Dakota R/T on it's way to running another of it's routine mid14s at Fontana Ca: YouTube - Mercedes 400E vs Dodge Dakota R/T @ ACD 5-30-9
Gonna be out there this coming Saturday too. Care to join me?

The Modular has been a disappointment to many people. Look at the 4.7 Mopar, an engine that is essentially the same size (282ci vs. 287ci). Even in it's lowly 2 valve form, the 2nd generation 4.7 produces horsepower and torque equal to the numbers put out by the best N/A 3 and 4 valve 4.6s! Only the brand new Modular based 5.0 is finally getting with the program.

The Modular is fundamentally flawed by it's inadequate bore spacing. That is one of the reasons why we now have this new 6.2 that is built with brand new tooling on bore centers that are larger than even the Mopar and GM V8s in that size range. By their own actions Ford has basically said: "Yeah, we messed-up with the Modular bore spacing."

Ford seems to be distancing themselves from the Modular, going out of there way to claim that this "New" 5.0 is "all New" when in fact it is still very related to the Modular. I would think that if there was a lot of love for the Modular that Ford would be claiming the 5.0 is a Modular, much the same way how Chevy claims that their LS based engine is a "Small Block" and that it is very related to the old Small Block when in fact the only thing it has in common with that knappy engine is the bore spacing! Then here we have Ford claiming that the 5.0 ain't a Modular when it basically is! Again, Ford's actions say a lot!
Regards, Eric