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35.5 mpg!!! yippy!

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Old Nov 21, 2010 | 01:18 PM
  #31  
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Don't forget a performance car.. heh
 
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Old Nov 22, 2010 | 09:02 AM
  #32  
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I'm already headed that way. F-350 for camping, hauling, towing. Honda for around town & daily commuter, and if the wife would let me, a sporty motorcycle. She has an explorer and average less than 4,000 miles per year on that.
 
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Old Dec 5, 2010 | 08:17 AM
  #33  
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We'll see in 5 more yrs, it would be nice if it happens.
 
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Old Dec 5, 2010 | 09:49 AM
  #34  
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At some point in the future if I can convert my truck to a bio-burner I think that would be cool - and homebrew my own. The only purpose of that would be to get around the reliance on the gas station - and the prices. The reality of it is that would be incredibly difficult to do, and risky.

If there could be a smaller diesel engine produced, like the 4.4L that was canned, I think that will add great sales to the market. Combined with the right gearing (transmission and final drive) it could be tailored very well to fit the purposes of buyers. In the vehicle platforms it could be used in from an F150 on up, and even the SUV mareket (heck, the 5.4L is, why not a diesel in place of it?), it could be a very successful option. If the mileage was brought up to the mid-upper 20's I think that would make a big splash - or even higher in to the 30's would be amazing. It certainly wouldn't fit the needs of the guys towing big campers and multiple car haulers, but for guys like me that want a diesel as a daily driver with occasional towing requirements it would fit the bill quite nicely. Thats not to say I don't like my SD, I wanted a diesel for a long time and found the right circumstance (all things considered, not necessarily the perfect circumstance) to buy. If a smaller diesel truck was offered I'd be driving it.
 
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Old Dec 6, 2010 | 02:23 AM
  #35  
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oreocreaming
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theres millions of cars that dont even get that kinda mpg yet they want a truck that has a curb weight of twice the amount of a toyota. they are out of their minds.
 
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Old Dec 10, 2010 | 07:17 PM
  #36  
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one thing that concerns me is that not only will they be mandating the 35.5mpg, but simultaneously they will be tightening the belt on the emissions front. emissions control equipment historically hinders fuel efficiency.

i think rather than legislating it, we would see better and quicker MPG improvements with $$$ incentives both for the manufacturer and the consumer.
 
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Old Dec 16, 2010 | 12:24 PM
  #37  
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I think the 35.5 MPG is the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) that will include all vehicles sold, fiesta to SD's.

It will be harder for Ford and other truck companies to meet the goal than Honda or Hyundai for example who don't have big trucks.

That said, I wish Ford would introduce a diesel version into the Ranger line up like they have for the rest of the world...seems like a no brainer to me. It would be great to go from 25 to 35+ MPG's for my little beater and save the F-350 for when i really need it.
 
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Old Dec 19, 2010 | 11:11 AM
  #38  
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lets just remove emissions standurds keeping european and other cars off the market i would love to see the 2.8 powerstroke certified for us sales i read its getting 35-40 in the 4 door ranger in brazill why cant we get that here
 
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Old Dec 24, 2010 | 06:21 PM
  #39  
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I've gotten 29 in mine before

And with higher gears and higher timing I plan on hitting upper 30s.

But I just dont see this happening in production vehicles. Isn't the 35.5 an average number? So like the cars could be getting upper 40s and the trucks high 20s and it would average out?
 
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Old Dec 25, 2010 | 06:55 AM
  #40  
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35 mpg that far out is a long way away.

Look closer to home and see this:

EPA and NHTSA Propose First-Ever Program to Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Improve Fuel Efficiency of Medium- and Heavy-Duty Vehicles | US EPA




Proposed Standards

It is important to note that the joint proposed standards cover not only engines but also the complete vehicle, allowing the agencies to achieve the greatest possible reductions in fuel consumption and GHG emissions, while avoiding unintended consequences. The majority of these vehicles carry payloads of goods or equipment, in addition to passengers. To account for this in the regulatory program, two types of standard metrics are proposed: payload-dependent gram per mile (and gallon per 100-mile) standards for pickups and vans; and gram per ton-mile (and gallon per 1,000 ton-mile) standards proposed for vocational vehicles and combination tractors. These proposed metrics account for the fact that the work to move heavier loads burns more fuel, and emits more CO2 than in moving lighter loads.

The joint proposed standards are rooted in regulatory history, EPA’s SmartWay Transport Partnership program, and extensive technical and engineering analyses. In developing this HD National Program, the agencies have drawn from the SmartWay Transport Partnership Program experience to identify technologies as well as operational approaches that fleet owners, drivers, and freight customers can incorporate. NHTSA and EPA believe that operational measures promoted by SmartWay can complement the proposed standards and provide benefits for the existing heavy-duty fleet.

The joint proposed standards are also heavily influenced by a study mandated by Congress in EISA and conducted for NHTSA by the National Research Council7 (footnotes). This study examined many aspects of heavy-duty vehicle fuel consumption as well as considerations for establishing fuel consumption standards.

CO2 and Fuel Consumption Standards

Both EPA’s and NHTSA’s joint proposed standards for the three main heavy-duty regulatory categories are summarized below.

Combination Tractors

Heavy-duty combination tractors – the semi trucks that typically pull trailers - are built to move freight. Freight transportation customers choose tractors primarily based on two major characteristics: the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR, which establishes the maximum carrying capacity of the tractor and trailer) and cab type (sleeper cabs provide overnight accommodations for drivers). Operators also consider the tractor roof height when mating with trailers for the most efficient configuration. The agencies are proposing differentiated standards for nine subcategories of combination tractors based on three attributes: weight class, cab type and roof height. The standards would phase in to the 2017 levels shown in Table 1. These proposed standards would achieve from seven to 20 percent reduction in emissions and fuel consumption from affected tractors over the 2010 baselines.
Table 1: Proposed MY 2017 Combination Tractor Standards EPA Emissions Standards
(g CO2/ton-mile) NHTSA Fuel Consumption Standards (gal/1,000 ton-mile)
Low Roof Mid Roof High Roof Low Roof Mid Roof High Roof
Day Cab Class 7 103 103 116 10.1 10.1 11.4
Day Cab Class 8 78 78 86 7.7 7.7 8.5
Sleeper Cab Class 8 64 69 71 6.3 6.8 7.0

Heavy-Duty Pickup Trucks and Vans

The agencies are proposing to set corporate average standards for heavy-duty pickup trucks and vans, similar to the approach taken for light-duty vehicles. Each manufacturer’s standard for a model year would depend on its sales mix, with higher capacity vehicles (payload and towing) having numerically less stringent target levels, and with an added adjustment for 4-wheel drive vehicles. This approach recognizes both the inherently higher GHG emissions and fuel consumption of higher-capacity vehicles, and the importance of payload and towing capacity to the owners of these work trucks and vans.

EPA is proposing to establish standards for this segment in the form of a set of target standard curves, based on a “work factor” that combines a vehicle’s payload, towing capabilities, and whether or not it has 4-wheel drive. The standards would phase in with increasing stringency in each model year from 2014 to 2018. The EPA standards proposed for 2018 (including a separate standard to control air conditioning system leakage) represent an average per-vehicle reduction in GHG emissions of 17 percent for diesel vehicles and 12 percent for gasoline vehicles, compared to a common baseline.

NHTSA is proposing to set corporate average standards for fuel consumption that are equivalent to EPA‘s proposal (though not including EPA’s proposed air conditioning leakage standard). The proposed NHTSA standards represent an average per-vehicle improvement in fuel consumption of 15 percent for diesel vehicles and 10 percent for gasoline vehicles, compared to a common baseline. To satisfy lead time requirements under EISA, NHTSA standards would be voluntary in 2014 and 2015. Both agencies are proposing to provide manufacturers with two alternative phase-in approaches that get equivalent overall reductions. One alternative phases the final standards in at 15-20-40-60-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018. The other phases the final standards in at 15-20-67-67-67-100 percent in model years 2014-2015-2016-2017-2018-2019.

Vocational Trucks

Vocational vehicles consist of a very wide variety of truck and bus types including delivery, refuse, utility, dump, cement, transit bus, shuttle bus, school bus, emergency vehicles, motor homes, tow trucks, and many more. Vocational vehicles undergo a complex build process, with an incomplete chassis often built with an engine and transmission purchased from other manufacturers, then sold to a body manufacturer. In these rules, the agencies are proposing to regulate chassis manufacturers for this segment. The agencies are proposing to divide this segment into three regulatory subcategories - Light Heavy (Class 2b through 5), Medium Heavy (Class 6 and 7), and Heavy Heavy (Class 8), which is consistent with the engine classification.

After engines, tires are the second largest contributor to energy losses of vocational vehicles. The proposed program for vocational vehicles for this phase of regulatory standards is limited to tire technologies and hybrid powertrains (along with the separate engine standards). The proposed standards depicted in Table 2 represent emission reductions from seven to 10 percent, from a 2010 baseline.
Table 2: Proposed MY 2017 Vocational Vehicle Standards EPA Full Useful Life Emissions Standards (g CO2/ton-mile) NHTSA Fuel Consumption Standards (gal/1,000 ton-mile)
Light Heavy Class 3-5 344 33.8
Medium Heavy Class 6-7 204 20
Heavy Heavy Class 8 107 10.5

EPA’s Proposed N2O, CH4 and HFC Standards

In addition to the CO2 standards described above, EPA is proposing standards for N2O and CH4 emissions. N2O and CH4 are important GHGs that contribute to global warming, more so than CO2 for the same amount of emissions. While today’s gasoline and diesel engines emit relatively low levels of N2O and CH4 emissions, EPA’s proposed standards would act to cap emissions to ensure that manufacturers do not allow the N2O and CH4 emissions of their future engines to increase significantly above the currently controlled low levels.

Air conditioning (A/C) systems contribute to GHG emissions in two ways – direct emissions through refrigerant leakage and indirect emissions due to the extra load on the vehicle’s engine to provide power to the air conditioning system. HFC refrigerants, which are powerful GHG pollutants, can leak from the A/C system. EPA is proposing a standard of 1.5 percent refrigerant leakage per year, to assure that high-quality, low-leakage components are used in each air conditioning system design for pickup trucks, vans, and tractors.


This is what you can actually expect to see coming in the medium term.

Manufacturers have about 3-4 years max to get cracking to meet these standards and be in time for the 2017 model year.



What does it really mean for a truck you buy in the next 5 years?

This:


The proposed NHTSA standards represent an average per-vehicle improvement in fuel consumption of 15 percent for diesel vehicles and 10 percent for gasoline vehicles, compared to a common baseline. To satisfy lead time requirements under EISA, NHTSA standards would be voluntary in 2014 and 2015.


15 percent improvement in diesels?

That is readily achievable right now by retuning the software on the current 6.7

10 percent in gasoline engines?

Direct Fuel Injection and turbos will womp that with no trouble.


What is the big deal?
 
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Old Dec 25, 2010 | 06:57 AM
  #41  
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gearloose1
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Originally Posted by EasternAggie
But I just dont see this happening in production vehicles. Isn't the 35.5 an average number? So like the cars could be getting upper 40s and the trucks high 20s and it would average out?

Diesel compact and midsized cars today, easily do 40mpg average.

Hybrids likewise.

Electrics (however calculated) add to the mix to goose the numbers.


It is readily achievable without wild gymnastics.

Wild gymnastics --- will do twice what is proposed.
 
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Old Dec 25, 2010 | 11:38 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gearloose1
Diesel compact and midsized cars today, easily do 40mpg average.

Hybrids likewise.

Electrics (however calculated) add to the mix to goose the numbers.


It is readily achievable without wild gymnastics.

Wild gymnastics --- will do twice what is proposed.
Yeah but how many diesel compact and midsized cars are there today? in the USA anyways. They're going to have to increase the percentage of hybrid and/or diesel cars by a good amount in 5 years to meet this goal.

I still dont understand why they havent started throwing diesels in more vehicles
 
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Old Dec 25, 2010 | 11:52 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by EasternAggie
Yeah but how many diesel compact and midsized cars are there today? in the USA anyways. They're going to have to increase the percentage of hybrid and/or diesel cars by a good amount in 5 years to meet this goal.

I still dont understand why they havent started throwing diesels in more vehicles

Because the fact is, diesel passenger cars in the USA have sold poorly, and diesel fuel is roughly at parity with gas.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2010 | 01:05 PM
  #44  
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The one problem that nobody ever addresses is sheer weight of many new cars today.

My 2007 GMC Sierra rcsb weighed 4500 pounds plus me. and my tools.

A 1975 GMC C-10 rcsb weighed 3500 pounds with my friend in it.

Aerodynamics roughly equal since new trucks are still bricks.

So when his 350 passed, and he didn't have to smog his truck anymore he swapped in a 4.8. He basically just put the 4.8 where the 350 used to be. He still had AC, and a catalitic convertor, and his mpgs went up to 25mpg with the stock T350 still backing the motor up. The old 350 got 20 hwy as it had all the bolt-ons and he was good at keeping it tuned.

I personally believe the GMC which I have plenty of experience with it capable of close to 30 mpg hwy if they would build them more like traditional trucks "less heavy duty" with todays aerodynamics. I sure Fords 3V 4.6 would be close, but I don't know anyone who owns one.
 
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Old Dec 26, 2010 | 02:30 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust
The one problem that nobody ever addresses is sheer weight of many new cars today.

There is a certain disconnect between "safety" advocates and buyers is that many of the so called "safety" features, like:

6 airbags and all the assorted "safety" features.

crash protection like side impact beams, etc.

and accessories (from stereo etc.) all add to weight.

Meanwhile, cars now require major amounts of electric power (more fuel), more hotel loads (HVAC, heated seats, DVD players), etc. and computers to run the car (PCM to BCM to what not).


It is clear that this is not going to change without a revolution like changing the body from steel to composites.

But that is not happening.


Not to mention the average driver / passenger(s) are also heavier!
 
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