I kept losing coolant..somewhere..still not sure where?..but still losing it..and I replaced the thermostat and the water pump thinking it was maybe leaking somewhere in that area. I also replaced the lower hose..Its hard to see with all the hoses and stuff. I park on gravel and it would hide a slow leak so hard to see..the reservoir looks OK..at least I don't see any leaks in it or hoses. I can see a tiny bit of wet looking around the new thermostat..and I put in the gasket and tightened all the way..but didn't use any other sealant than gluing the gasket to the thermostat housing itself.

But anyway I got that done, and while doing it I disconnected the battery and left it that way a couple days. btw the colder the weather the worse is this situation..warmer weather and not so noticeable

Now when I try to start it in the cold weather it starts and stops in the driveway and will barely idle unless I treat it like a carburated car and keep revving it etc. And even once I drive off and it seems better as it warms up a bit..just 5 minutes later out on the road it will lose power at 55mph and start running badly and not respond to the accelerator. I have to shift down to 3rd gear and try to keep the speed up that way because it lugs down in 4th with the bad running motor.

Figure I "damaged" a sensor ? or something during the repair? But I get no codes with motor running or not. I did go through and reconnect/disconnect most of the visible electric connections and such and I don't "see" anything missing, but something has gone bad. It was not running badly before I disconnected the battery and let the computer go back to wherever it is now. So I'm believing its in that area..Any ideas?

 

Yes..I know the photo shows my 48F1 but I have a number of trucks and I'm talking about my 92 2.3L Ranger California car.

 

I agree that it sounds like something else happened during the repair. Takes air, fuel, spark & compression to make em run, so whats going missing when it runs poorly?
Use, or carry your timing light, fuel pressure & vacuum gauges so when it begins acting out you can see what's going missing. Here is a handy link on how to interpret what a vacuum gauge can tell us about whats going on with our engine. How to Use and Interpret a Vacuum Gauge Scroll down to click on & view what the various test scenarios are trying to tell us. EDIT: Also check the vacuum hose connection to the fuel pressure regulator.
Make sure you reconnected the engine coolant & IAT sensor leads, as they can mess with fuel trim. Double check the battery post clamp & battery to engine & body ground connections, all need to be clean, bright & tight.
More thoughts for consideration, let us know what you find.

 

May be off base, but is it possible the coolant level is low after doing all the service to the pump and thermostat. You must have replaced the coolant, but a bubble may be keeping the control sensor(not gauge sensor on the side of the block) from knowing the coolant temperature. If the computer was unaware of the cold temperature, it would not bump the cold idle, nor add extra fuel at startup and first few minutes of running, causing stumble, misfire, poor idle, low idle speed, as described.
You should not be able to keep your hand on the heater hoses once the engine is warmed up. If they are cold, you may lack some coolant. They can be disconnected or loosened and used to allow air bubbles to escape. I have a flushing tee installed, so I used that when I had to burp the system upon pump replacement. It is installed in-line with one of the heater hoses, and allowed me to move the tee 'high' so air would want to rise, and be allowed to escape. Heater worked well, too, after doing that.
The '5 minute' description made me think of going from 'open loop' to 'closed loop' operation, and something happening then. The computer starts to use the O2 sensor, etc, to diddle with fuel and spark, once the sensed temperature reaches 19xF, whatever was set by Ford. Before that, when cold, it will use 'table' values for fuel spritz duration and spark timing.
Would not hurt to take a look at the MAF sensor wires while fumbling around under hood. Schmutz on the wire(s) will cause stumble and hesitation on acceleration.
tom

 

OK..ya..I was thinking along those lines too..Maybe I'm not getting all the coolant in the motor..I added some more coolant to the reservoir yesterday..as it was empty.?

THANKS

 

A couple of things come to mind that can help burp our cooling system after a refill. Use a Ford thermostat, or a like one that has the air bypass poppet valve design.
Elevate the front end to make the radiator neck fill opening the high point in the system. Turn the heater temp control to Max Temp.
On my old Merc Zypher I found that loosening the heater return hose before refilling, would help burp the heater core faster. Works on the Ranger too. I'd refill until I had coolant just start to drip from it's return pipe on the firewall, then reconnect the heater return hose & complete the refill.
After we refill, make sure the heat control is on Max heat & with the engine off, Repeatedly squeeze the lower radiator hose to chase large entrapped air bubbles toward the radiator.
If we have the front end elevated on stands or ramps, or facing uphill, the steeper the incline the better, so to make the radiator fill neck the high point in the system, we can usually get most of the air out right away.
Top up the recovery tank & note, or mark it's level.
Then with the front end elevated, start the engine & let it idle until after the thermostat opens for a few minutes, then shut the engine off & let it completely cool down with the front end elevated.
If the radiator cap is functional & it had additional air in the cooling system, it'll burp & suck in some coolant from the recovery tank to top the system up & we'll see the recovery tank coolant level drop, if it had a large amount of air in the cooling system.
If it dropped a lot, or emptied the recovery tank, top it & the cooling system up & repeat the engine running warm up cool down cycle again, or until the recovery tank level stops dropping.
Doing it with the front end elevated I've never had to repeat the warm up/cool down cycle more than once, to get a good cooling system air purge.
With the front end elevated & squeezing the lower radiator hose after the initial refill, usually gets the large entrapped air bubble in the heater core out & past the thermostat poppet valve & through the upper radiator hose so we can see it burp at the radiator fill neck.
More cooling system refill thoughts for consideration.

 

Thanks to all and pawpaw..I was wondering if the thermostat I bought was the right choice..it wasn't of the air bypass poppet valve design..and I thought of it yesterday and bought one that did..so I'm planning on starting over this morning and will drive the truck up on some ramps..elevate all as you've said..I'm sure that's the problem. Thanks for your help.

 

OK, let us know how it goes.

 

Yep will do.

 

I did all that except couldn't loosen any heater hoses..they've been on there since I bought the truck new..and I've got things to do..and don't really want to cut them off and replace them and find out there's some additional "secret" weirdness involved in doing that .

But it actually runs worse now. It seems better for 3 or 4 miles and then almost totally quits..Its too dangerous to drive like this in traffic and rainy dark conditions.

I'm gonna set it aside for now and drive one of my older trucks..they're easy to fix and reliable...not finicky and impossible..like my 92 Ranger has always been..its in control .

I've taken it to pros over the years and they don't do much better. I'm sure people like you pawpaw can fix this..but making cars and trucks than only one or two people can fix is problematic.

I would never buy another.

Thanks for the help anyway..I appreciate your trying..

Can't get water in??? how weird..lets make it hard

 

quoting myself:You should not be able to keep your hand on the heater hoses once the engine is warmed up. If they are cold, you may lack some coolant. They can be disconnected or loosened and used to allow air bubbles to escape. I have a flushing tee installed, so I used that when I had to burp the system upon pump replacement. It is installed in-line with one of the heater hoses, and allowed me to move the tee 'high' so air would want to rise, and be allowed to escape. Heater worked well, too, after doing that.

Did you check the heater hoses for hot temp? You can get a flushing tee for $1-2 at many auto parts stores. Just the tee with a screw-on cap. If you place it in the heater hose coming from the water pump, it will allow you to 'back flush' the cooling system using a garden hose, and water under normal pressure.
It can also allow you to more readily burp the system, allowing air bubbles to rise to the high spot you create by lifting the tee. Loosen the cap, let the bubble out, until a drip or drizzle of coolant starts to flow, close the cap. Done.


TOMGET: I've taken it to pros over the years and they don't do much better.

You are starting to confuse me now. You noted a leak of coolant, but were not sure where from. You replaced pump & stat.
Still have a leak? No mention...
But, now report it will run maybe OK for 4-5 minutes then run like dog poo, barely get out of its own way.
AND you have taken it to mechanics for years(owned it from new) and they can't fix it.

FIX WHAT?

Again, I'm confused. Is it a leaker still? You replaced the new stat with a newer stat.
Did the newer stat fit tightly into the housing? Rubber seal jammed against the machined surface so it gets hot within minutes of startup? If it does not fit tight, it won't work, and will not control coolant temperature.
Unless there is 'mechanical' problems, such as pistons, rings, valves, plugged muffler or converter, plugged air cleaner, then the problem is with fuel or spark. Brain science or rocket surgery this is not. If people can Dx and Rx from reading on the web, you have to admit that someone "on site" should be able to do a lot better, a lot quicker.
You may have a fuel pump problem, a pressure regulator problem, a fuel filter problem, a fuel pump pickup 'sock' problem, or even water in the gas.
Check pressure and delivery volume, capture some ( a quart or half gallon) of fuel, and look for precipitation and pearly blobs at the bottom, measure flow over time, slap on a timing light and watch for 'cutout' in the sparkers. Rocket surgery - where you get so mad you try to turn it into a rocket - add some booster fuel to the bed and light 'er off.
Itsa truck. Too bad it don't run for beans.
tom

 

You're confused?

OK when i say I've taken it to pros over the years..I'm not talking about this one instance..I'm talking about various issues of lack of drive ability that have come and gone over the 24 years I've had the truck

It has the habit of not working properly..and mostly mechanics can't figure how or why. I'm sure you could. But they can't.

Is that clear to you? I hope so.

What generally happens for these instances is that I park the truck for a few weeks or months, and then it starts to work OK again. Why? IDK

I've read all you've said, and please don't confuse me by repeating it again. I've heard you, and you've heard me say I'm going to set it aside for a time.

And that's what I'm going to do.

Do you understand that? Are you confused again. I'm sorry I can't help you. Get a friend to explain this to you please.

 

Not trying to impugn your ability nor reading capacity. Just thought I might have added a few things you had/had not considered.
Hope it works after sitting for a few months. You were a bit unclear as to the problem by the time it got to the latest post. I read too many to keep them all straight in my head w/o re-reading from the beginning.
I was, repeat, was confused by the 'multiple times' at mechanics and they were all seemingly stumped. Non sequitur? Dunno, but good luck.
bye until you decide to do somethin' more.

 

Well sometimes we just get frustrated & have to walk away for a while when our efforts don't bring joy & we can't seem to figure out why.

BUT this in & of itself is a clue, but we have to be of the right mind set to accept it, so when your feeling more positive about your trouble shoot, come on back & the forum will try & help you think your trouble shoot through to a successful ending.

Right now it seems you have posted four problems, maybe 5.
1: Most recently, after the water pump, thermostat & lower radiator hose replacement, you can't seem to get all of the air out of the cooling system when refilling.
2: it's running worse since last disconnecting the battery for the water pump, thermostat & lower radiator hose replacement work.
3: It's had a long standing coolant leak that you've not said was yet found.
4:It randomly runs ok after an extended sit, or randomly runs worse after a cold start & driving a few miles. These may be two different problems. These are also common symptoms of an electrical part heat soak, or humidity problem & on your year/model, the ICM belongs on your suspect list for the heat soak & maybe coil packs for a humidity & or heat soak problem, considering the vintage.
There are simple tests you can do to test them for gross failure that are easy to do when your of a mind to continue your trouble shoot.

So when you want to resume your trouble shoot, consider beginning with why you can't seem to get the system full of coolant, find & repair the coolant system leak you said you have but couldn't find, if the water pump, thermostat & lower radiator hose replacement you decided to do, to try & address the leak didn't fix it.

Then once the cooling system is full of coolant & not leaking, begin as previously suggested, to work the engine drive ability problems using your fuel pressure gauge doing a fuel pressure & flow/volume test, a spark test with your inductive timing light, all when it's acting out & Post the results. If necessary we'll suggest the simple ICM, coil pack & plug wire tests.

Post where you are on all past & present due scheduled maintenance replacement items, like filters, plugs, wires, O2 sensor & what condition the old coolant was in, ect.

We know you've replaced the thermostat, water pump & lower radiator hose & I assume you replaced the old coolant.

I think that about sums up all the subjects you've posted about so far.

 

Today's Thursday and I had a few minutes yesterday and today to work on the truck, and now I just got back from a 25 mile city and county drive of various speeds and stop and go etc..and no check engine light ever came on..before it was coming on after 5 minutes or so of driving.

And there's no more missing or lagging under acceleration or stalling or rough idle etc It seems just fine.

It has warmed up a little bit..IDK if that's helping or not, but probably not a factor..or so I hope.

What I did was some more scanner work and and got a code Code 172, HO2S (sensor), System Lean. No surprise there. That's how it was running much of the time.

I understand that's the oxygen sensor code..reading from the exhaust, and I read that most often the sensor is not a problem(although it could be) its just reading the results of a bad running motor.

So I started by removing that device that plugs into the side of the box that holds the air filter(forget what that's called), and once out I could see that there was some "dirt" coating one side of it. The last time I replaced the filter I unknowingly disturbed the rubber of the new filter where it seals against the air box. Must have been a lot of dirt that got in. I cleaned that with CRC QD electronic cleaner and also the elect connector and let them dry.

Also noticed the connector to the MAF was not 100% in place..meaning maybe I disturbed it when wrestling with the hoses etc. The clasp on the bottom of that fastener wasn't engaged. So it could have been a problem there too. I cleaned both sides of that connection with the same electronic cleaner and let dry.

I also sprayed the MAF with CRC MAF Sensor cleaner..I know that's controversial, but I figured I"d give it a go.

All seems good now. Thanks