Need help.... My truck is still chugging. It's got to stop or it's going up for sale.
 

I'm ready to re-insure my gasser and drive it till it pukes......... My PSD sucks right now. Really sucks.

Whatever the #$%^ it's problem is will not trip the SES light. It chugs bad when first lit off that it'll barely run. Give it some pedal and it will not increase RPM at all. I honestly can't tell if the EBPV is open or not since it's so loud with the straight pipe. Gimme some things to check. I'm off tomorrow, Thurs, Fri, and the weekend. So, I got time to work on it.

Here's what it did today..... I cranked it up (was not plugged in overnight) it barely ran. It was in the 40's last night. I gave it some pedal and it ran a little better. It at least idled real bad. I let it warm up for about 5 minutes. Got in it and it at least drove. It drove with a real bad miss. I'm talking dead, solid miss.

I drove it about a half mile in the neighborhood like this. I pulled out on the highway and accelerated, when it shifted into second it immediately ran perfect........ Just like someone turned a switch on....

No problems after for my 2 mile ride to my co-workers house (we carpool). He drove today. My truck at at his house all day. I got in it this evening, crank it up and it does the same thing. I let it warm up again, this time it'll just idle real bad. No change in RPM in gear, nothing. I could get about 1800 RPM out of it in neutral. It eventually ran a little better, but is still missing. I drove it home and shut it off like this.

Here's what I plan to do tomorrow. Not sure if I should do it all at once since doing so could not pinpoint the problem. I'm also going to try and round up a Diablosport tuner and see if it has any codes, or at least be able to monitor some stuff while it runs and chugs.

1) Change fuel filter
2) Change CPS
3) Remove BD Diesel chip
4) Unplug EBPV
5) Remove and clean the ICP sensor

It's got 2 fresh, hot batteries in it already.

I'm going to try and do the hutch/pre pump stuff this weekend if I can. I'd like to plumb in some clear fuel return line tubing and see if it's an excesive air intrusion problem. Hell, could it be a low fuel pressure problem?

The oil is not that old, PLUS I don't think it's oil related since it runs good AFTER it's warm. Unless it's viscosity related..... BUT, I still ain't buying that since other PSD's that I know of run fine with Rotella 15W40 in the winter down here and other more northern parts of the country.

Guys, I'm stumped and frankly am ready to throw in the damn towel. Maybe I bought a lemon, who knows???????? Either way it's ticking me off. It's either gonna get fixed or sold, whichever is less painful........ I'm not gonna dump money it a blind problem........... I can think of more creative ways to flush money away.....

Gimme some help please!

John, One of our support trucks ( After its 4 year life as a front line response truck and 2 years as a reserve) is doing this and I have been trying to correlate all of the symptoms and conditions. It doesnt do it all the time just after extended sitting 2 -3 days. I describe it as stepping on a wet sponge when mashing the go pedal until it warms to NOT. I have done every test AE can throw at it and all pass. The only thing I have not done is a cold cylinder compression check. What i think is happening is when cold some of the cylinders are loosing compression but once it warms everthing seals up and she runs fine. I know this is not what you are wanting to hear but I think we have thrown about every check at your truck we can without actually hooking it up and doing some test.

Have you checked the UVC connectors that go into each valve cover gasket? You may have a bad pin or a shorted wire in the harness somewhere, that will cause the truck to run like crap, and if the wire moves or gets bumped, it will go back to normal. All i can recommend is looking over every possible engine harness wire (wrapped with red and black elec. tape on the engine) and see if any wires are chafed. Im pointing at an electrical problem since it's sporadic and not constant.

I am thinking you need to verify your checkvalve for the HPOP reservior is not faulty since it comes to life after it is warm. This can be done by checking the HPO reservior VIA the allen head plug on top after it has sat for at least overnite. Should be within an inch of the top at worst.

Filter change is always a good idea, at the same time you check the HPOP level, just pull the bowl cover and check the fuel level there also. In addition, there are restrictors in the fuel lines where they enter the heads. Complete with screens. Mine are in the shed. Maybe they somehow get over come if clogged once the fuel pressure builds. That last is a swag but it is under troubleshooting for a lot of symptoms in the manual.

Disabling the EBV is also a good quick check but it should not cause it to chug when idling/warming up. If it is malfunctioning, it would simply fail to disengage when you get underway and then present a problem, but still worth a look.

I somehow suspect Alan has looked into this with his vehicle with similar problems but maybe not. Just my 02.

Perhaps a bad idle validation switch or throttle pedal assembly? And or both. Anyone else?

Also, a clear return line is not necessary as any type of cheap see through filter plumbed in there or similar item will serve the purpose.

BTW, I run 15W 40 year round. If it's clean, it's not your problem.

Not my truck tenn she runs like a swiss watch, its one of the old rescue chassis we use as support vehicles

That is what I was referring to Alan. I know you wouldn't tolerate that. Have you checked all the items I listed on that chassis?

Every one of them several times. Only other thing I have been thinking about is fuel airation in the pump. The colder the fuel the easier for dissolved air to be churned into entrained air. The quik connects are suspect also but I think these would be an all the time issue and not just when cold.

Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I just got back from inside. I went outside, cranked it up, and it ran fine!!!!!!! AGGGHHHHHHGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! Read below as I'll address everything you guys just mentioned.

I just changed the fuel filter (looked OK) and the CPS (royal PITA). I also unplugged the EBPV, then plugged it back in. I figured that's enough till tomorrow. If it starts up bad tomorrow I'll pull the EBPV and retry it. I doubt that's it though. That wouldn't cause any roughness, just a lack of power.

Alan, honestly I don't think it's a compression problem since in the past it has done this out of the blue while the engine was warm. I found some old notes of mine in the garage and it has done it once the engine warmed up. The first few times it did it was right after fueling, SO, maybe it is a fuel aeration problem?

I hooked up some tubing to the fuel bowl drain and ran it into a tub. Once I cracked it open it gurgled real loud until it was empty. I closed the valve, cycled the pump a few times and drained it again. I did this about 5-6 times and drained about a 1/2 gallon out. Only the first time was loud. The others were hardly gurgly at all. I made sure the drain hose was clear of all diesel before I cracked it open each time. I also cranked the truck up and opened the drain while the engine was running. The fuel came out kind of aerated, so maybe there is a fuel aeration problem there.

I bought this truck back in February. The weather was still cold when I got it. It did it a few days after I bought it I remember. It did it a few more times after that too. It has not done it over the summer. My thoughts is that the fuel line is getting stiff in the cold weather and causing air intrusion.

Also Chris, you might be on to something as well. This morning it was like someone turned on a switch. It shifted second gear and all was well. I mean just like that it was OK.

I'll do some digging through the wire harness and see if anything is chaffed. Only other thing I can do are the pre-pump/in-tank mods to see if it's that.

Back around Feb/March I did find the chip loose in the PCM. BUT, the chugging it's doing now is more pronounced than before, so maybe the 2 chugs are not related. Either way the chip comes out tomorrow. Hopefully I can get it to chug first thing in the AM, shut it down, pull the chip and see a difference......

Only other thing I can think of is the accelerator pedal assembly. My dad and friend bothe have 02's and have had their's changed under a recall. Maybe mine is bad too. I have an early 01 truck? Anybody know where to check for recalls?

Finally.... I broke the clip off of the CPS wire harness. SO, now the plug can simply slip out and leave me stranded. Anybody know if ford sells just the male plug? Maybe they do and I can transfer over the pins to the new one. If not, anybody know who makes that plug along with a part number. It looks like a Deutsch or a Weatherpack connector from what I can tell.

Thanks again guys. Hopefully, we can get it sorted out. After this is done my mission is to get the cackle removed. My dad and friends truck (both have only 100K miles) idle like a 6.0 compared to mine (250K).......

Im guess UVC connectors. I just change the GP's in my truck and the connector that happened to be under the valve cover came off a little bit and was not causing a connection to any off the right bank injectors or GP's. But i would also assume since i got a SES light for an IDM code, that if that was the problem causing a miss that bad it would throw the a code thus turning the light on. My truck idle like crap, like a certain miss because the truck was running on one bank.

Thanks John,

How much trouble am I looking at to pull the VC's and check those harnesses? Aren't those the harnesses that were prone to chaffing under the covers?????? I remember seeing pics of those I think. Is the UVC connector inside or outside of the VC?

What about the ICP sensor? Someone suggested that it may be faulty as well.....

John the intanks and prepumps will remove the chance of air getting into the fuel up to the pump but there are still 2 quik connects on the engine side of the pump that can draw air.

There are 3 connectors to look at the one outside the VC the One built into the vc Gasket and the one inside. Kwikk has a good pic of a rubbed spot on his harness inside the cover https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/2...or-wiring.html

Ford does sell a repair kit for the harness where you can just splice in a new connector. I'll see if I can dig up a part # on the CPS lead

You beat me to it Alan, I was going to post those pictures.
I also feel that the wiring under the valve covers are the most likely suspect with the description of symptoms.

You will need to pull the IC tubes off. On the right side you need to pull of the intake to the turbo. Then you pull out the 10 bolts. On the left side is similar except you have to move some wiring out of the way.

We kinda started off with a cold start after sitting problem but now it is sounding like a harness issue or that CPS connector is sending a very crappy signal. did it break before all this started or after John? Untill you can get it fixed take a couple of tie wraps and see if you can secure the connector to the mounting braket to help hold it is place. If you are not getting a good constant 12V feed to the CPS it may be missing some of the key marks on the timming disk and really throwing off the timming, But I would expect this to store some codes (P0344)

John here is the TSB on the Harness repair kit
https://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/full...p?tsb=01-10-12

Thanks guys. I hate to tear into it but I guess I'll have to. Any idea of Ford sells just a CPS repair harness?

Also, Kwik, what do you think about this link? I came across it last night. Does this sound like something it could be?

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...ower-help.html


Also, I read where if it cranks and starts it's chugging to unplug the ICP sensor to see if it smooths out. If it does then the ICP is bad. Make sense?

See post 15

Unplugging the ICP puts the truck in "Default Mode" it does not mean the icp is bad but that you need to mechanically monitor oil rail pressure and compare it to the ICP reading to determin if it is an IPR or ICP issue

Thanks Alan. Does the CPS harness use the same part number as the CPS and just add a suffix at the end? Is that what I'm looking for there?

Regarding the ICP/IPR question. Would it be just a matter of replacing the o-rings in the IPR and replacing the ICP? That seems like a cheap enough option to try. I can get a new ICP from ebay for $55 and the IPR rebuild kit seems less than $20.

When I pull the VC's are the gaskets re-useable? If not, who has some good replacements?

Alan,

I broke the clip off on the CPS last night. The terminals looked clean from what I could see.

The VC Gaskets are reusable but with your issues I think I would plan on replacing them just to get the new connector (International has them pretty cheap). On the ICP/IPR For that price why not, But keep in mind that if they dont solve the problem we will still need to get a mechanical gauge in the oil rail.

Amiller, i just want to make sure i'm not misinformed. Frrom prior posts i learned that the quick dis-connect's on the engine side of the pump are pressurized thus creating a good tight seal like they were designed. On the tank side of the pump there is a suction from the pump created, and the quick disconnects do not create a seal becuase they are designed to seal under pressure not suction. Am i correct? I've done the pre-pump mod and am happy with it, as long as i keep it over 1/4 tamk.

The are pressurized and generally seal well as long as they are in good condition. I just prefer to eliminate the possibility because i have seen them leak (Abused Truck) and where fuel can get out air can get in.

Alright guys. Here's an update. Truck hasn't been started since Tuesday night. I was going to work on it yesterday but ended up going out on a boat for work instead.

I just started it up. It chugged and shut off. I pulled the EBPV plug. Same thing. I restarted and pulled the ICP plug. It still chugged, but not as bad. What I didn't do (I wasn't thinking, just woke up) was check the HPOP level and fuel bowl level.

After just doing my little diagnosis here's what I've come up with.

1) Low HPOP level problem causing the chugging. Supposedly, pulling the ICP plug will make it revert to a default setting. I assume this default setting will make it idle normal and smooth? Mine did not idle smooth indicating a true HPOP oil pressure problem. Maybe my drainback valve is faulty?

2) Low fuel level and/or weak pump causing a low fuel pressure problem. Still could have air intrusion though.

3) Still might have a wire harness issue. I'll check the easiest places on it today and pull the covers this weekend.

Alan, I can't make heads or tails of the wire harness repair chart you posted. i called the dealer and was told that I would have to buy the entire engine harness to the tune of 600 bucks! Any ideas on how those part numbers cross over to sensor connectors.

Thanks again for the help. I'll get it fixed sooner or later...............

If the under valve cover inspecton goes OK I would like to get a mechanical gauge in the HP Oil rail before you go any further. If we dont start following through and completeing some test (instead of just the try this mode) so we can rule out some systems we will never figure this out. Dont buy the harness i'll get you the part number. BTW: from our sponsors they can be had for half that http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214072 or www.powerstrokeshop.com

After thinking about it some more i think it's got to be oil related. Last time I checked the HPOP level it was good. BUT, the weather was also warmer then too.

I'm thinking possibly a viscosity issue when cold or an oil drainback issue.

What range gauge will I need to get to stick in the rail?

I wasn't about to buy that harness. I just want the plug, or a plug with a few inches of wire on it so I can splice a new one on.....

John do you remember "match game" I have 5 pages of pictures of connectors I am working on posting with part numbers, should be done in a bit. The gauge will need to be rated at 3000+psi minimum, to be safe i like 4500psi rated gauges and hose

Try this John..... www.7point3.com/writeups/connector.pdf

Thanks Alan. Let me see if i can get a hose and gauge rounded up. Is it just going to connect to the plug on the rail where an HPX line would go?

Thats it. also be prepared to take a reading from both sides to compare balance.


I believe the CPS is page 1 Row 1 number 2. Double check me though its been a few months

Thanks Alan. I'll have to go out and pull the CPS plug off and compare it.

Alan,

The CPS harness is toast. The insulation is falling off the wires on about the first 4 inches........ I'm trying to match one up now.

Also, I haven't ran the truck in the last 2 days. The HPOP was full after sitting that long in the cold. I cranked it this morning and it did the same thing. What about the glow plug system? Since the search is disabled can you tell me what the pins are in the UVC harness? Also what the resistance of a good and bad GP should be. Also any resistance values for the injector too..


Thanks. I'm going to call the dealerships and see about the harness....

John the whole harness is over 500 from ford I got it for ~450.00 From Here:http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214072 Its not listed so you will need to call. The guys name is Ed.

Any idea how long the short in the cps harness has been occuring?? that harness controlls all of the engine sensors and injectors and glow plugs. The ground for the CPS shares a splice with several of the other sensors, most of which could cause your problems, fixing this short and making sure the rest of that harness is OK should be step 1.

If it starts and chugs, shut it off then unplug one of the valve cover harnesses. If it still starts and chugs, shut it off, plug the first one back in and unplug the other. It shhould not start at all. On whichever side makes it not start at all, pull the valve cover off and look at the UVC connector. If you can push it in even a little bit, that was your problem. The clips that keep them secure uner the valve cover get hot and lose their ability to lock the connector in. Then you can do one of two things, get a zip tie and tie the lock together or go buy a uvc harness for about 80 bucks and replace it. If there is no problem whatsoever with the connector, then pull the drivers side inner fender and pull out your IDM. Shake it and see if you hear a sloshing noise and otherwise check it over to see if it looks like water is trying to come out. I work at at dealership and I can tell you for certain that 99% of the time if you have a really bad skip that can go away, the issue is the UVC harness.

The four outside (large) pins are the glow plugs, the next two on each end are the injector coils the center pin is the return for all 4 injectors. In other words:






gp gp 1 2 r 3 4 gp gp






The glow plugs should have between .2 and 1.0 ohms resistance to ground, but it's a lot easier and more accurate to connect a test light to the + terminal of the battery and to each glow plug pin. The injectors should be less than 5 ohms (usually about .3 ohms)between each injector and the return (center) pin. I realize that the drivers side is actually 2 4 6 8, and the passengers side is actually 1 3 5 7, but I figured it would be easier to understand the way I labeled it.

Thanks guys. I'll check the UVC harnesses where they plug in at the VC tomorrow.

Alan. I managed to get the harness pulled up from in front of the engine and the first 4 inches of insulation is real soft and brittle. I'm guessing the road dirt and oil residue that was all over it caused it to do this. I found the replacement plug/harness at my International dealer. The Ford dealer told me they do not have it. They pretty much have every other plug/harness for the truck except that one.

I'm going to solder it on tomorrow. It doesn't look like the wires were touching, but who knows. I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

I'll keep you guys posted. I'll work some more on it tomorrow.........

Checked the UVC harnesses where they go into the VC. They are fine. I soldered on the new plug/wires for the CPS. It cranked up, ran rough for 2 seconds and hasn't given me any trouble yet. It has only gotten down to 60* so maybe I still have a problem?

Or, maybe it was the CPS harness/plug. Maybe it had some of the wires touching? I'll keep everyone posted.

Been real cold here lately. I still have my problems when it's cold out. I haven't had a chance yet to check under the valve covers.

Plugging in at night solves the problem. But why? This thing shouldn't need to be plugged in right? There are guys on here that don't plug in and their weather is colder than mine.

I'm hoping the UVC plugs are the problem and plugging it in puts enough heat in the engine to allow all of the contacts in the UVC to seat fully.......

Also, the high idle kicks on like it should too. I need to hook the EBPV back up to make sure it functions properly now that it is cold out..

I'll keep ya posted.

Well, if plugging it in solves your problems, then the problem lies in the glow plug system. Nothing else should be effected by plugging it in. Concentrate on in that area.

Jim

I'll leave it unplugged tonight and jump out the terminals onthe GPR in the AM to see how it goes.

I had wanted to do that awhile back. Thanks for reminding me.

Just a thought, maybe it could be the camshaft positioning sensor, it doesn't alwys show a code.