Air flow rate and filters (check my math)
#1
Air flow rate and filters (check my math)
I haven't looked up anything on how to calculate the air flow rate into an engine.
So that said here's what I did:
444 in^3 x 3200 rpm / 2 = 710,400 in^3/min => 411 cfm
This would be the air flow rate for a n/a 7.3L at perfect efficency.
One thing I did find online is a factor called Volumetric Efficiency (VE).
Apparently this is basically how well the air flows into the cylinders.
Also for most street engines this equals 80%.
An engine will always be the same volume displacement. So if you change the pressure at the manifolds, you actually changing the number of atoms of air that flow into the cylinders. You only notice the volume change if you take those atoms and return them to atmosheric pressure.
So, now I would assume to calculate the air flow rate for a turbocharged or supercharged engine you would calculate the n/a flow rate and then use the ideal gas law to find the actual # of molecules traveling through the engine. I did this and got 1.08 lbmol/min. Then since in the IGL V, R, and T are assumed to be constant (which T isn't, but I will account for this when I have more time.), we can obtain P1/n1 = P2/n2. Therefore, n2 = n1 * (P2/P1). Then you can plug n2 back into the IGL with atmosperic pressure to find the volumetric flow rate through the filter, and don't forget the VE of 80%.
So now we have:
Boost @ 3200 rpm (psig) Atom Flow Rate (lbmol/min) Air Flow Rate(cfm)
0 1.08 329
15 2.16 568
20 2.52 764
25 2.88 873
30 3.24 983
35 3.60 1092
40 3.96 1201
45 4.32 1310
50 4.68 1420
55 5.04 1529
60 5.40 1637
65 5.76 1747
70 6.12 1856
75 6.48 1966
I hope that A this is correct and B that it helps people choose the right filter set-up for their rather than just buying something that's popular or an upgrade.
For me, what filter's can I buy that flow 1100 cfm?
EDIT: Well, thats a bunch of crap, the columns aren't lined up right! The first and third columns are the one that matter anyway.
As of this thread being 1 1/2 pages long, the following chart was added.
I used 60% VE instead of the 80% used above.
Boost (psi) Air Flow (cfm)
0 247
15 426
20 570
25 654
30 737
35 819
So that said here's what I did:
444 in^3 x 3200 rpm / 2 = 710,400 in^3/min => 411 cfm
This would be the air flow rate for a n/a 7.3L at perfect efficency.
One thing I did find online is a factor called Volumetric Efficiency (VE).
Apparently this is basically how well the air flows into the cylinders.
Also for most street engines this equals 80%.
An engine will always be the same volume displacement. So if you change the pressure at the manifolds, you actually changing the number of atoms of air that flow into the cylinders. You only notice the volume change if you take those atoms and return them to atmosheric pressure.
So, now I would assume to calculate the air flow rate for a turbocharged or supercharged engine you would calculate the n/a flow rate and then use the ideal gas law to find the actual # of molecules traveling through the engine. I did this and got 1.08 lbmol/min. Then since in the IGL V, R, and T are assumed to be constant (which T isn't, but I will account for this when I have more time.), we can obtain P1/n1 = P2/n2. Therefore, n2 = n1 * (P2/P1). Then you can plug n2 back into the IGL with atmosperic pressure to find the volumetric flow rate through the filter, and don't forget the VE of 80%.
So now we have:
Boost @ 3200 rpm (psig) Atom Flow Rate (lbmol/min) Air Flow Rate(cfm)
0 1.08 329
15 2.16 568
20 2.52 764
25 2.88 873
30 3.24 983
35 3.60 1092
40 3.96 1201
45 4.32 1310
50 4.68 1420
55 5.04 1529
60 5.40 1637
65 5.76 1747
70 6.12 1856
75 6.48 1966
I hope that A this is correct and B that it helps people choose the right filter set-up for their rather than just buying something that's popular or an upgrade.
For me, what filter's can I buy that flow 1100 cfm?
EDIT: Well, thats a bunch of crap, the columns aren't lined up right! The first and third columns are the one that matter anyway.
As of this thread being 1 1/2 pages long, the following chart was added.
I used 60% VE instead of the 80% used above.
Boost (psi) Air Flow (cfm)
0 247
15 426
20 570
25 654
30 737
35 819
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#8
Check this out. Engine Design Equations Formulas Calculator Air Flow Rate
Thats closer to a calculation.
Thats closer to a calculation.
#9
Found a better site.
Air flow (CFM)
That says my V-10 should flow about 450 max cfm and my filter is rated at 500. Why would they under rate all the 7.3's like that? We must be missing some part in the equation?
Air flow (CFM)
That says my V-10 should flow about 450 max cfm and my filter is rated at 500. Why would they under rate all the 7.3's like that? We must be missing some part in the equation?
#12
#13
Now I found this we must be missing something somewhere. This one shows you are at about 470 cfm with my quick numbers not to exact but if i filled it out right who knows??? motorgeek.com :: Turbo/Engine Flow Calculations and Maps
#14
the 6637 flows 425 CFM. you have to look at the volumetric efficiency more.. there is no way we can ever reach 100% VE.. we would probably be lucky to see 75% with ported heads and everything.. i would probably assume more like 60% for a PSD's VE.. our head design really really REALLY sucks!! That math didn't look right either. I think that we do need more air flow through the filter, but not that much.. i simply don't think our stock turbos could ever suck that much air. find out the CFM rating on the stock turbo????
#15
If we know the displacement per rotation, and multiply that times the # of rotations per minute that gives displacement per minute.
If you know the volume,temperature and pressure of a gas such as air, you know how many molecules there are.
If you know how many molecules in a set displacement and times that by the rate of displacement, you get how many molecules displaced per minute.
If you know how many molecules per minute and you know the temperature and pressure of the molecules you can find the volume as a rate with respect to time.
What am I missing? There is either some short cuts that people take and some assumptions they make or I have my logic wrong.
If you know the volume,temperature and pressure of a gas such as air, you know how many molecules there are.
If you know how many molecules in a set displacement and times that by the rate of displacement, you get how many molecules displaced per minute.
If you know how many molecules per minute and you know the temperature and pressure of the molecules you can find the volume as a rate with respect to time.
What am I missing? There is either some short cuts that people take and some assumptions they make or I have my logic wrong.