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Old 05-31-2010, 08:05 PM
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60k Mile Maintenance

Greetings,


My 05 FX4 [5.4-3valve) is approaching 60k miles (about 5k away), been doing some research on the maintenance, and spoken to a local shop a friend recommended. They're suggesting the following:
  1. Transmission Flush / Filter replaced
  2. Fuel Injector Service / Fuel Filter replaced
  3. Coolant Flush
  4. Serpentine Belt (dependent on condition)
  5. Battery (Interstate / Exide)
The shop quoted me about $540 for everything, all 5 listed items are original and have never been "serviced". The battery appears to still be in good "working condition", although I figure it's time to just go ahead and replace it. I changed the air filter myself around 50k. Purchased the ESP, so the Oil Change and Tire Rotation will be done at the Dealer.

Still contemplating the Plug Replacement, there's been plenty of information here and elsewhere about when to replace them, even though the life expectancy should last 100k miles: every 30k, wait till 60k, wait till 80k.....hmmmm it's a really a tough call. The dealer gave me a quote of around $450 for the job; believe a $25 charge per each plug that breaks.


Anyway.....
  1. Does the $540 price sound reasonable for the identified items?
  2. Any other items I should address (brake flush?)
Thanks for reading in advance.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:43 PM
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Honestly it is probably early for a tranny flush and coolant flush, but it is better to do it too early than too late. I'm not about to tell you not to be proactive in the maintenance of your truck.

I wouldn't worry about brake fluid flush. Probably address that on your 2nd set of brakes, or your 1st set depending on how long they last. I would say around 100K.

As for the plugs, I have to be honest, on my 2004, I changed them at 115k, and they didn't look bad at all. I followed the TSB and broke 5/8 though. So its up to you. Honestly paying 450 + 25 x 8 plugs at 100k would be cheaper than paying 450 every 30k.

But hey, its all a gamble anyway. You could do them at 100k and they would come out fine, or mabye at 60k every one will break. Who knows.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:57 PM
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Read your owners Maintenance Guide manual. Not saying that to be a dick. I'm serious. Most people never read it. So they pay for a bunch of bull-**** that isn't required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Fresh View Post
60k miles

They're suggesting the following:
  1. Transmission Flush / Filter replaced - NO. Tranny has a lifetime fluid
  2. Fuel Injector Service / Fuel Filter replaced - NO. Only replace the fuel filter every 15,000 miles. DO NOT USE A CHEMICAL INJECTOR CLEANER
  3. Coolant Flush - NO, unless the coolant looks weird you should be fine
  4. Serpentine Belt (dependent on condition) - Perhaps...do it yourself. Very Easy
  5. Battery (Interstate / Exide) - Good idea. roughly $100. shoot for a 850 CCA or bigger

The shop quoted me about $540 for everything - ripoff...ripoff alert


The dealer gave me a quote of around $450 for the job; believe a $25 charge per each plug that breaks.
that is a great price...if they follow the TSB. Then you should have zero breaks. i personally would buy the Lisle tool and do it myself. cost you maybe $200 at most even if you needed the tool

Anyway.....
  1. Does the $540 price sound reasonable for the identified items? -NOPE
  2. Any other items I should address (brake flush?) - See link below or your Owners Manual
MotorcraftService.com - click on "Owners Guides" on the left


basically the 60,000 mile Maintenance is the following
Click the image to open in full size.
  1. Oil Change
  2. Rotate Tires
  3. Fuel Filter
  4. Air Filter
  5. Inspect all the normal stuff
very few people meet the extreme use categories (I do...).
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylus View Post
Read your owners Maintenance Guide manual. Not saying that to be a dick. I'm serious. Most people never read it. So they pay for a bunch of bull-**** that isn't required.


MotorcraftService.com - click on "Owners Guides" on the left


basically the 60,000 mile Maintenance is the following
Click the image to open in full size.
  1. Oil Change
  2. Rotate Tires
  3. Fuel Filter
  4. Air Filter
  5. Inspect all the normal stuff
very few people meet the extreme use categories (I do...).
His truck is an '05 with the 4 speed transmission. The fluid must be replaced at or before the 60K mark depending on it's condition.

2009 Generation trucks have the lifetime / 100K mile flush interval and no dipstick.

I've never had a vehicle in the shop for a scheduled check up. Performing good maintenance all the time should make this expensive event unnecessary.

My '04 Expy doesn't have one solitary grease fitting so what in the hell am I paying for other than a transmission flush?
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:19 PM
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Change the coolant(initial fill is 5yrs/100k miles), flush the transmission(through the cooler line, not nec to replace filter), change the brake fluid(bf is hygroscopic, water is bad for calipers), load test the battery and replace if weak or leaking acid, its a good idea to replace plugs(I have seen a lot misfire around 70k), replace fuel filter.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:25 PM
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Fellas, have to thank you for the feedback and suggestions.

Looks like I'll probably get the Plugs replaced (fingers crossed). Don't have the skillset to do it myself, so I gotta pay.

As far as the other items go, looks like I'll probably have the following replaced at the Local Independent Shop:

* Transmission Fluid
* Fuel Filter
* Battery
* Serpentine Belt (if necessary)

Tylus, thanks for the detailed responses & 60k Checklist
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tseekins View Post
His truck is an '05 with the 4 speed transmission. The fluid must be replaced at or before the 60K mark depending on it's condition.

2009 Generation trucks have the lifetime / 100K mile flush interval and no dipstick.
ALL 2004-2010 F-150's have a lifetime fluid in the transmission. the 60k maintenance item that says to change the fluid is in reference to a SUPERDUTY. not the 4.6 tranny or the 5.4 tranny (different btw depending on which motor you have).
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylus View Post
ALL 2004-2010 F-150's have a lifetime fluid in the transmission. the 60k maintenance item that says to change the fluid is in reference to a SUPERDUTY. not the 4.6 tranny or the 5.4 tranny (different btw depending on which motor you have).
So your saying that Mercon V is a lifetime fluid? I'm not doubting what you've posted but I've never heard this before. The maintenance guide is very ambiguous in that they are expecting the consumer to know transmission codes and they are expecting the dealer to be honest and tell us that a flush in not needed.

Next to the block that says, change ATF at 60K 4R100 transmissions: They could have denoted F-250/350/450 to clear that up a bit.

I took my '04 Expy in for a flush at 40K miles and the dealer was all too happy to do the work and cash my check. I'll be calling the dealer today and asking some tough questions.

BTW, my fluid once again has 40K miles on it and it looks as if it came from the bottle still.

Thanks Tylus!
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:17 PM
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Hey,

Who is the dealer to question when you want your fluid changed? You come in and say 40k do it, he's gonna do it. He would be crazy to turn you down. The fluid has a scheduled change at 150,000 miles. It is not sealed for life or anything like that (as per 3rd printing of scheduled maintenance guide). However I dont see any harm in keeping your transmission fluid clean. I've seen vehicles that should have had it changed long before 150,000 miles. Especially if you do any towing or anything like that. the fluid does not last as long at elevated temperatures.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:41 AM
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Ford calls it a lifetime fluid...but I agree, after it's been worked hard, you should change the fluid.

the 04-08's are sealed, and the 09+ seem that way as well. it's a PITA to do a fluid change in these compared to the good old days.


but yeah, the Dealership should not be suggesting fluid changes prior to 100,000 miles unless you fall into the Extreme/Hard Duty maintenance cycle.



I dislike Dealerships, but these sort of things are their bread and butter. They make $200-1,000 typically off the sale of a NEW vehicle, and several thousand off used. But it's the Maintenance Fees that they really can clean up with. Many people are worried about Warranty or "getting the job done right" so they just pay the $$$ unquestioningly. even though there is typically a 50% or better markup for labor and parts.


Do the stuff you can. Then shop Dealerships against each other. You'd be surprised at the huge variance in prices you'll find in a 20 mile radius from one Ford Dealership to the next.


and don't forget that Lincoln Dealerships have the exact same tools and training. They are actually my preferred place to go. They have to serve a more demanding client, so they typically don't screw around
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylus View Post
Ford calls it a lifetime fluid...but I agree, after it's been worked hard, you should change the fluid.

the 04-08's are sealed, and the 09+ seem that way as well. it's a PITA to do a fluid change in these compared to the good old days.


but yeah, the Dealership should not be suggesting fluid changes prior to 100,000 miles unless you fall into the Extreme/Hard Duty maintenance cycle.



I dislike Dealerships, but these sort of things are their bread and butter. They make $200-1,000 typically off the sale of a NEW vehicle, and several thousand off used. But it's the Maintenance Fees that they really can clean up with. Many people are worried about Warranty or "getting the job done right" so they just pay the $$$ unquestioningly. even though there is typically a 50% or better markup for labor and parts.


Do the stuff you can. Then shop Dealerships against each other. You'd be surprised at the huge variance in prices you'll find in a 20 mile radius from one Ford Dealership to the next.


and don't forget that Lincoln Dealerships have the exact same tools and training. They are actually my preferred place to go. They have to serve a more demanding client, so they typically don't screw around
I called the dealer about my Expy yesterday and referenced the maintenance guide and the printing of the 4R100 transmission, etc.

The service writer knows nothing about transmission codes or which tranny is used in which truck. She's either stupid or lying or both to be that close to the repair side of the industry.

The service writer told me that the '05 and newer transmissions were sealed on the Expeditions, (F-150) I'm not certain of, and even though my fluid appears to be brand new looking after 35K miles, they still recommend 30K mile flushes as it's not sealed. They recommend 60K mile flushes for the '05-'08 models.

MERCON V is some damned good fluid and my truck acts like it's still brand new out of the box. I'm gonna let it roll and check it every 2500 miles. When it shows the smallest sign of breakdown, it'll be flushed right away.

This is the same transmission and fluid used in the '05 - '08 models except I have a dip stick.

I think they want my money and are willing to lie or try any scare tactic needed to get into my pockets.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:02 PM
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My 2004 has a dipstick as well. Did they really stop putting dipsticks on the 05-08's?

Did you guys know that it is perfectly normal for some of Fords newer transmission fluid (LV) to turn brown? Its already pretty dark out of the bottle, but I guess in matter of 20k miles it looks like a burn up tranny, but that is just how it is. I'm fairly certain Merc V is supposed to remain red. Just an interesting little tid bit. So if you see anything that has that fluid in it, and it is dark, dont worry. You are supposed to check it by straining it through a coffee filter and looking for debris in the fluid. Fun fact I guess...
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
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My 2004 has a dipstick as well. Did they really stop putting dipsticks on the 05-08's?

Did you guys know that it is perfectly normal for some of Fords newer transmission fluid (LV) to turn brown? Its already pretty dark out of the bottle, but I guess in matter of 20k miles it looks like a burn up tranny, but that is just how it is. I'm fairly certain Merc V is supposed to remain red. Just an interesting little tid bit. So if you see anything that has that fluid in it, and it is dark, dont worry. You are supposed to check it by straining it through a coffee filter and looking for debris in the fluid. Fun fact I guess...
Mercon V will show signs of wear such as discoloration and smell. My daughter bought an '06 Fusion last year that had 34K on the clock at her time of purchase. At 40K the fluid was brown. I called the dealer as the maintenance guide clearly recommends a 60K mile flush. Naturally they were dumbfounded. We had it flushed anyway.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:06 AM
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My '06 has a dipstick for the tranny.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Fresh View Post
Fellas, have to thank you for the feedback and suggestions.

Looks like I'll probably get the Plugs replaced (fingers crossed). Don't have the skillset to do it myself, so I gotta pay.

As far as the other items go, looks like I'll probably have the following replaced at the Local Independent Shop:

* Transmission Fluid
* Fuel Filter
* Battery
* Serpentine Belt (if necessary)

Tylus, thanks for the detailed responses & 60k Checklist
I wouldn't do anything but consider the transmission fluid but since you want to waste your money, I have a couple of questions. Why change the battery if it is working OK? The battery in my 01 Escape still works fine. Why the serpentine belt? The belt on my 01 Escape is fine at 110,000 miles and I've had cars with 170,000 miles on them with the original still on them.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:21 PM
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