Ok everyone, I know that this has been written up a thousand million gajillion times, but I need some answers quick and more to-my-point and application.

I have a 1987 F150 4X4 with a 6" lift and running 35s with the POS TTB. Have been wanting to get rid of it for awhile now, and now just might have to be the time. As it is, when out wheeling a couple weeks ago, I unknowingly cracked and broke half the radius arm at the axle. I've been driving it aroung trying to find out why it clunked everytime I turned and hit the brakes, and finally got it up on the lift today and found out why and it scared the crap out of me, as I had just been on a 400 mile trip with it like this. I know that I can just replace the rad arm, but if I'm going to be in there anyway, I might as well see if I can do this.

I am going to try to get as complete of an axle as I can out of a 78/79 F150/Bronco. My questions are these:

Do I have to notch my crossmember still like I've heard even with the 6" lift?
What degree of C bushings will I need?
Will my new lifted coils work in the old buckets from the older axle?
Is it mostly a bolt-on application?
Whats involved in the mounting of the drag link (or am I thinking trac bar?), and whats the easiest way to do it?
I have the Rad Arm drop brackets that came with the lift, can I re-use those, and do I need to move them back like I've heard?


Im sure more will come up as I further my research, but I'll get to those when I get there. Thanks for any and all help

 

trac bar centers the axle with the frame...uses a mount on the pass/side of the axle and a bracket on the driver side of the frame...the drag link is the steering link that connects the pitman arm with the tie-rod

i didnt have to with a 4" lift, but my springs have no flex to them...6" lift should be fine without notching it unless you run extremely flexy coils, but i havent had any clearance issues...yet

i used 4* bushings with 4" lift stock rad arms and brackets and i got 2.7* caster ... you want it to be in the range of 2.0-6.0* (positive of course) so that 2" difference between your and mine will make roughly 3* caster difference, so 6* bushings should get you there, but then you rad arms will be far from parallel with the ground and the bushings will bind like no tomorrow, i suggest longer arms or drop brackets...then 4* should suffice

your new lifted coils for the TTB will work if you are willing to spend ample time custom making lower mounts for the coils to the axle...coils for a 78/79 will fit in the stock buckets on both top and bottom, since yours are new you SHOULD be able to return them and buy some 78/79 coils

i custom built my drag link and used the 78/79 tie rod...the drag link from a 92-97 f350 4x4 will work so ive heard many times...trac bar i used the stock 78/79 arm and modified it and to make it the same length as the drag link and the same angle. it worked out with great angles and the arms are within 1/2 inch of each other...the bracket for the trac bar...make one and weld it to the frame...

you can reuse the TTB rad arm brackets and yes you do have to move them back as the solid axles rad arms are much longer... as i said earlier (providing these ones drop the same amount at the 78/79 drop brackets) if you use those you should be good with 4* bushings, but id get 6* any way...just to be safe

you have a 6" lift on a TTB? does it have a drop pitman arm? if so you will want to get rid of that in favor of the stock one...i have never seen the use of a drop pitman arm in a SAS, they are not needed...you want the drag link parallel with the trac bar, you want the trac bar to mount as close to the frame as you can so to get the drag link to match angles you gotta get it closer to the frame as well...

here are some pics of my build...remember this is only 4" lift...

trac bar, notice the heim joint at the diff end of the trac bar, the stock bar has a steep bend and a bushing there, i cut that off and replaced it with the heim to get the lengths and angles closer, plus it is now somewhat adjustable...worked out very well...in that pic the track bar bracket is just 2 plates welded to the frame...DO NOT leave yours like that, it will eventually tear the frame, my brackets has been reinforce and boxed and it is now a fortress...i have not pics of it now though


heres the bracket...yes i can still get at the power steering bolt, even after boxing it and reinforcing it...you have to spread the forces out of it WILL eventually rip the frame...or break the welds...



here is a picture of the trac bar before i removed the bend at the diff end...

 

Ok, a picture would really help of what you mean about the trac bar mount, I don't entirely understand what you're meaning. Why didn't you remove your TTB bracketry from the X-member? I see it still bolted up there lol.

I was meaning trac bar, I don't know why I thought drag link lol. Can I drive this slow and for a short(maybe 3 miles) distance without a trac bar? I can't weld that well that I would trust myself with something so important, so I would need to take it out to the welding and fabrication shop.

Glad to hear I won't have to notch the X member.

I guess I should have been more specific, but I was meaning my springs were "new" to me. I put this lift on in March, so I wouldnt be able to return the springs. Can I just bolt or weld on some lower buckets from a TTB front end, would that work?

I've read through your thread and saw that you took that bend out, can I just get it made out of 1 1/2" DOM tubing with heim joints at each end? Will that be strong enough?

Do the stock rad arms give enough flex? If they don't I'm thinking about making a custom set out of DOM and heim joints.

Yes I do have a 6" lift on a TTB, I know it isnt made for it, but I have always been planning the SAS and it's just getting time for it. Yes I have a drop pitman arm (hopefully I still have my original) and I'll put the stock one back on.

Did it really lift the front end another 2" or so like they say? Or could you tell?

 

I really would not try and drive the truck without a trac bar installed. My 79 had a worn out trac arm bushing allowing the axle to move 1/4" left or right. It was hell trying to drive like that. Every little bump and dip in the road would move the axle under the truck. There are mobile welders that will come out a weld it up for you. I believe he just tapped his trac arm for a hiem on the lower and used a polly for the top. I need to read the condensed version of his swap. The thing with the trac arm upper mount is you want it as close to the frame wile keeping the proper steering geometry. The longer that mount the more leverage ( stress ) it will put on the frame. If you look at the second picture you will see that his trac arm still has a bend in it. That is allowing him to clear the crossmember without notching.

 

yes i cut the end off and tapped it, still have the poly to absorb some vibration...and actually that trac bar is "upside down" if you look in the 3rd pic you can see that bend turns down, on a 78/79 in factory location it turns up...but flipping the bar allowed me to run it without notching the x-member as you can see in the second pic the factory bend now puts it inside the x-member, it would not fit at all if i were to try and mount it without flipping it as that bend would put it directly into that x-member...so for you to use DOM you would probably need to bend it to avoid cutting the x-member, run it like mine and it should be fine as long as you arent flexing like crazy

do not try and drive it without the x-member, as 79ford4x4 said, its scary enough when they are just bad...without that trac bar the only thing holding the axle under the truck (side to side) is the coil springs, so you wont be able to steer unless you are moving fast, i had to load mine on a trailer with no trac bar, at slow speeds it just pushes the body around when you try to turn

couldnt find a socket to remove the TTB bracket (its metric and im a heavy duty equipment mechanic so all i got is std. stuff) then i got too lazy, ill get i tout sooner or later LOL ...the other one was riveted in go it got the grinder treatment

the rad arms arent really a limiting factor, they are plenty long to allow good flex, biggest limiter here is shocks/coils...if you really are hard set on not cutting the x-member you probably wont be able to flex a lot without the trac bar making contact somewhere...i havent had any problems yet with 4" but i had it out when the BDS springs were new so they did not flex worth ****...if you flex like this you wont have problems LOL





the SAS for me with 4" coild got me 4" of lift...it depends on the swap...if you use 78/79 upper coil buckets you can get 2" extra of lift, you can also move the axle forward an inch to get a better approach angle...i used the stockers, works fine...also if you try to use the TTB coils it more than likely wil lget you that extra 2" of lift due to the funny looking lower coil mount setup you have to build to make them work...go to the link below, there will be many many builds involving TTB coils, just have to look for them...

FullSizeBronco.com - 78 - 96 Ford Bronco offroad club, forums, tech, installs


as far as geometry goes...its simple...the trac bar has to be as close in length to the drag link as possible and they have to be paralell with each other (on the same angle) as you can see in pic #1 mine worked out pretty damn fine... thats how you want it to look...with the trac bar bracket, like 79ford4x4 said, a shorter bracket makes less leverage means less stress is put upon the frame...
in pic #2 you can see my upper trac bar mounting bolt is only a couple inches from the frame, that way it is parallel with the drag link and it is strong, to build the bracket i attached the trac bar to the diff then hung the other end with string and lined the trac bar up with the diff then measured from the bottom of the frame so i knew where to drill the bracket...

 

Ok, now I'm trying to get this big ball a rollin' again....its been a long winter, and I feel like I've just got a bunch of projects started and haven't had the time to finish them through (so goes life huh).

Does anyone know where I can get some extended radius arms and bracketry for this swap?

9.ford.5 How've the stock shafts been holding up? I do run mine a little rough, so I'm debating on throwing in chromolys before installing it.

I think I've got a good lead on the axle, but its already out and doesn't come with any of the attaching parts. Thanks for your help, I'll keep you guys posted

 

Ok, went to look at the axle today, its semi-complete. Comes with radius arms, all the steering bars, and looks pretty good. It will need new rotors, gotta rebuild the calipers, needs new hubs, and the drivers side shaft, but I'm going to go ahead and throw chromolys in anyways.

It does have 3.50 gears, am I going to run into any problems running this with a 3.55 rear end?

 

That gear ratio will work just fine.

I never broke the bronco graveyard chromos I had in the bronco on 36s, but that was teh old ****ty motor and only a few wheelin trips before they were given to Kjett for use in his ranger.

 

Good enough for me, I have a friend with a '71 Bronco with a 347 stroker pushing 500 horse and a zf5spd with 38" Iroks on bead locks, and he hasnt broke his chromos either. Between those two, thats good enough for me.

Two more qs for ya'll.......
Can I keep the stock upper coil mounts with the older style coils?
Is there a way I can keep my dual-shock setup?

 

Ok, still getting the parts together and rebuilding the axle, but I do still have some questions for everyone.

I have a 6" lift, and am going to get the Deaver Superflex coil springs from broncograveyar to match what I already have on there in the rear, so do I need radius arm drop brackets for this, or does the stock mount work because the frames are a little different.

Is there any way I can measure to see what degree C* bushings I need?

As far as the upper spring bucket, since mine theoretically won't work with the older style coil, is the older style upper bucket just a bolt-in?

All help is greatly appreciated guys....its finally becoming a reality so its time to get the details of everything worked out.
H

 

I don't have an answer to that question, but why are you going D44 SAS? That just seems like a waste of time.

 

as opposed to a D60 SAS? Main reason that I'm doing it is that I'm keeping it built as a half ton, staying with what the truck was made as. As of yet, until I start breaking things, I see no reason to go to 1 ton running gear except for the fun of saying "yeah I have 1 ton running gear." I know the general consensus is to overbuild so you won't have problems, and that is fine, and I completely agree. However, I just am having more fun building 1/2 ton stuff that is going to work just fine.

Point for example, my 8.8" went out last year and I already had a 10.25" out of a 1990 F250, but it's just not what I want to build, so I traded the 10.25" for a 9" out of a '84 Bronco.

 

Subscribing.....

 

Also, I missed this before, but keep the drop pitman arm. Yes, you want the drag link and trac bar parallel with each other, but you also want them closer to parallel with the ground as well. This reduces the stress put on the steering joints, mainly your TREs on each end of the drag link and will make it easier to turn. Also, if you have any significant amount of flex, either droop or uptravel, if the trac bar is already at an angle at ride height it is going to pull the axle to either side when the axle end of the trac bar drops or comes up more severely than if you started with a more level trac bar.

If you make your trac bar bracket beefy enough and tie it into the engine crossmember as well you won't have any problems. Check out fullsizebronco.com, they know what they're talking about when it comes to SASing 80-96 half ton fords.

 

^^^^^ I know....the 8.8" broke (1/2 ton) so I contradicted myself there, but the 8.8 isn't up to my par for a "strong" rear end anyways.....I just want to build it all and see what it can do.

Thanks for the reference to FSB, I'll check them out over there as well as here.