All,

I changed the oil in my old Ford (before it was even needed mind you) and it repaid me by not starting shortly after. Here's what it did.

My family went on vacation for ten days (in the wife's car) and upon returning, I was going to take the old Ford out and do an errand. It acted as it always does after a long period of no driving, but when it fired it immediately stalled and refused to start at all.

After fiddling around with it, here's what I know. It turns over fine, the oil pressure gauge reads pressure and there are no strange death noises. I put a timing light on plug cable #1 and it lights up (so there is some spark I assume). I also plugged in my spare ignition module (which worked fine when stored behind the seat a few years back as a back up) and nothing changed. Not getting much gas smell, I suspected the fuel pump or a clogged line. I pulled the pump off and when manually activated it produces what looks like good pressure and it's not leaking. I replaced it and left the fuel line to the carb off, my wife turned it over and it pumps fuel about like a really weak drinking fountain. I can blow air into all fuel lines and hoses from tank to carb with no clogs...so...

My questions are: is a timing light going to rule out a no spark issue? How much fuel should come out of a stock flow, Carter mechanical pump? The carb is a four-year old Holley 600 cfm vacuum secondary 4 bbl. What should I check on the carb if anything?

FYI, the motor is a rebuild 351C with the old 351M electronic ignition running it with about 30k mi on it.

Any suggestions as to how to proceed would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Bob

 

I'd start by visually confirming you have fuel delivery at the carb and spark at the plug wire then work back from there if need be.

 

Im not sure what the holley requires, but edlebrock carbs need 4-7 psi.
hope that helps

 

Thanks for the help, I'm planning to attack it again this evening when the temps get back to the double digits. By fuel to the carb, should I leave the fuel line attached and try to get the accelerator pump to squirt or see if the pump will get the fuel to bubble out of the disconnected fuel line?

For spark, I assume you mean to pull a plug, ground it to the block and crank? Is there an easier way?

Thanks again for the help,

Bob

 

Fuel pump volume is just as important as pressure. Here's how to check volume. Run a hose from the pump outlet into a measurement container, and crank the motor over for 20 seconds - 5 seconds on, 10 seconds off, 5 on, 10 off, and so on for a total of 20 seconds of cranking. After 20 seconds of cranking, the pump should have output at least 1 pint of fuel. If this is not the case, the pump must be replaced.

Fuel pressure must be 4-6 PSI. This can be checked with a fuel pressure gauge.

Honestly, for checking spark I think the safest way is to use a spark plug tester. I'm not a huge fan of recommending the shade-tree methods to people over the internet; that's not to say they don't work.

 

usually when something just quits abruptly like that it is an electrical issue.You can usually tell when its running out of fuel because its normally a gradual process(will only idle,hits and misses while cranking,etc...)with the exception of water in the fuel, of course,it will cause an engine to just quit like that,But will normally start right back up,die again,etc.The first thing i would do is pull a plug out and check for fire and wetness from fuel(flooded).seriously flooded will cause it suddenly quit too.hold accelerator on floor while cranking to clear flooded engine.if it has fire and the plugs are not gas fouled,try pouring gas down the carb and see if it fires up.also after one sits it will fire up and suddenly die until it gets fuel again.you might not be getting fuel due to a float stuck closed.(which could have also caused sudden death due to serious flooding, that is float stuck open).

 

Thanks slong and fmc400, I have some time to take a crack at it today. It seems to be a fuel issue, I finally got it to sputter with some carb cleaner so I'll hold off on the shade tree spark tests and return my focus to the fuel feed issue.

I'll see if I can get that fuel pump to provide a pint using fmc400's method, and if it does, I'll turn to the stuck float/carb possibility.

I don't know how amateurs used to troubleshoot before forums like this. I'll update if/when I beat this problem, thanks!

Bob

 

fmc400,

Tried the fuel pump test just now, not even close to a pint. If a mechanical fuel pump being driven by the starter (not idling) is supposed to provide a pint in 20 seconds, it sounds like it would be coming out about like a drinking fountain. This one dribbles it out and in those 4 x 5 sec bursts, I ended up with what looked like 4 or 5 tablespoons of gas in the pan I put under the pump. This is consistent with the fact that when I disconnected my fuel hose to the carb and held it at carb level above the pump, I didn't get anything during a couple of short turns of the starter the other day.

I'll head to Napa this afternoon and swap pumps,

Bob

 

Okay, this is getting messy and embarrassing. I've replaced the fuel pump with a Napa part, replaced all old rubber fuel line, blown through everything from tank to carb and still nothing. In a prior post, I got the truck to fire with carb cleaner, so it's got to be a fuel issue.

Before I put the gas tank back into place, could someone confirm to me that the short black plastic tube that submerges to the bottom of the tank on the end of the sending unit/pick up is supposed to be about 3 inches long? It looks like that would allow it to scavenge, but I'm worried that it was longer and a piece has broken off in the tank.

If so it may be time to tear into the carb.

Thanks again for your help,

Bob

 

Three inches or about there. If a piece has broken off, it must be replaced. Otherwise, it won't suck up gas unless the whole sock is submerged (which is about when the tank has over half of gas in it).

To verify the tank's condition; run a line to the fuel pump from a gas can and attempt to start it up. If it fires up, the tank needs to be looked at again.

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are you sure you replaced the rubber line from the pump to the metal line that runs back through the frame to the gas tank.Thats a common problem hose.I would suggest running a length of hose from the fuel pump to a container of gasoline and that will eliminate everything except the fuel pump(which is new right?)a LIGHT tap on the carb will cure a stuck float.if the float is stuck,The carb should be cleaned.The sending unit should have had a sock-like thing on the end of it.

 

whoops we both said the same thing.

 

Well would you believe a bad fuel pump, brand new from Napa? To top that, Pep Boys had the same Carter fuel pump as Napa and theirs on my motor fired right up! Troubleshooting is tough when you have to troubleshoot the new parts you buy. Thanks to all who contributed, you are all very helpful.

Bob