Ok I was in another thread where we were talking engine swaps and I mention swaping in a desil and another fella wrote this..

Well the diesel stuff sound really nice but my problem is they seem to really start to have serious engine issues around 70,000 miles. I've had many ford diesels and 2 dodges and it seem 70,000mi is the magic number for diesels in my experience. New engine is around 15,000$ to 17,000 installed,OUCH! Diesels are nice but if you have problems its expensive. I do think the dodge cummins is the better in diesel world in truck world for durability, cast iron engine. The aluminum diesels just killed my income to much down time. My best service truck have been gasoline engines so far. They didn't pull as hard but they always seem to stay running and make me money!! never had a diesel make it over 130,000mile without engine change! Injector issues on all my diesel engine failures. I use mine to make money but I have a 460 truck to back up all my diesels when they go down. Average cost to run a diesel over the years is around $30,000 or more to keep on the road or more during its lifespan in 130,000 miles. The $30,000 didn't include fuel cost also. Diesel average around 10 to 13 miles to the gallon in my truck world. The worst diesel is the 6.0 ford diesel. I know their are diesel that kick butt but never seen one in my world. If you run a diesel be prepared to spend money or be able to repair yourself. The new oils and fuels are changing for the worse and not helping our situation. Sorry I'm down on this subject but just spent 6000.00 on my dodge last week to keep on the road, ouch. If you know gassers I would stick with what you know and keep tuned up. Diesel are a good thing to know but expensive.


I have never heard any of this before. Someone saying a 460 is more reliable than a diesil. Or that 130,000 miles is all you can get out of one. I figgued that if I am way out of line this would be the place that someone could set me strait.
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If you take care of a diesel it will last WAY longer than a gasser. The problem is many people fail to maintain them properly. They require more maintenance than gassers but you will find that there are plenty of diesels out there w/ well over 130k miles. How many big rigs do you see w/ gas engines? Those things have millions of miles on them.

 

One thing I didn't mention was that cold weather was a factor. Cold weather to me is -20 below or colder situation up to 10 degrees. The diesel is different in cold weather #1 compared to #2. If your guys are not familiar with this situation drop me a PM. On the 460 they usually ran around 130,000 to 140,000 until timing chain died. The cost of a 460 is a lot cheaper to repair than a diesel. Sometimes my diesel don't start in cold weather compared to gassers. Voltage requirement are less for gassers compared to diesels. The one thing for sure is your asking questions and learning. Been up here for about 15yrs and learned a lot. I know the 6.0 don't have the problems down south like they do up here, warm weather. Sorry I scared you but got you asking questions and learning.

 

My diesels were in the shop and maintained regular/ 5000miles. One of our 6.0 fords had $80,000 into truck not including fuel or the cost of the truck. Injector problem and engine failures and tranny. Finding good diesel techs was and is still a problem. Lots of parts changers out their. I work on natural gas engines for a living and need my truck to keep running. If you guys have any questions drop me a note and I''ll tell you even more horror stories with diesel in cold country. I'm a ford guy but will never buy a ford diesel again after yrs of failures and heavy expenses. I'm not a rich man and every dollar counts. Ran a 5.4 ford gasser for over 100,000 and never went into shop except for a alternator once. Made a lot of money with that truck. Was kinda slow but it always ran it seemed. Had a 7.3 that made me a lot of money hardly any down time. I know I'm gonna get beat up on but o'well. My w-2 at the end of year tells me if I had a good year or not after expenses. Most of my expenses are truck expenses.

 

Whatever you guys are smokin,,I want some...lol
Really though I don`t know about the cold extremes but I have 278 k on my 7.3 and its still great. If you are spending 30 k on avg. not incl. fuel then maybe you should get a moped.Every 5 k do oil,filters,tire rotation,reg maint stuff you know, then all should be good.C`mon now 30 k ? Find that hard to believe

 

I have always had diesels till now. If I could buy a new 7.3 I would buy 2 of them. This day you can not compare the 7.3 to the 6.0 or 6.4 My 6.0 was a piece of crap and I ended up trading it in after 2 years and getting a 5.4. I would not spend the extra $6000. - 6500.00 for a diesel today I feel you will not get your moneys worth at all. With the new emissions you will only get 12mpg or so. Sure some will get better but every 7.3 sold got way better mileage than a gasser back then. Maintenance on a diesel is very costly. If you do not have a great diesel tech it will cost you even more. My vote these days goes to the gasser.

 

btw
I use mine for haulin wood everyday except Sat &Sun.

 

Either that's bad care or really bad luck. I've only owned diesels my entire life and the soonest that I've had a problem was 96k and that wasn't engine, that was tranny. Everyone knows(and I knew when I had the problem) that the auto behind the cummins isn't worth crap, but it was a $200 and I was up and going again.


Why does everyone assume that if something goes wrong that it requires a new engine? Why? I just don't understand that. I could have done the mods in my siggy three times over and still come out ahead from that figure.

This really does sound like lack of proper care. You know of how many engine swaps(not talking about conversions here, just swaps) that I have happened in my world? None. There are alot of diesel haulers in the equine world as well. Diesels outnumber gas haulers 10:1, so in my world I come in contact with alot of diesels.


Can't really go by this. My figures are very much different then his and my experiance is very different then his, so that adds variability to his analysis v. mine.

Once again, can't go by that, so many variabilities on that one. That's why I typically disregard mpg claims. I don't know the variables and I really don't know how they are getting that calculation and if they are doing that calculation accurately. I know what they claim, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not surprised he hasn't seen one in his world. I think his world is slightly skewed and one where trucks aren't really taken care of.

Diesels of today are "High Performance" vehicles and they require to be kept up as such. No getting around it.

New oils changing for the worse? I don't think so, what I've been running has been very good and my engine actually runs better, however, I do follow a strict schedule(something I doubt he does, based on certain thing s that he mentions in this thread) and you really have to, but my engine runs good.

Do I really need to go into what's wrong with this statement?

Based on my experiances with gassers(my world, not his) that isn't going to work for me. I haul way way too much and the gassers that I've dealt with just can't do it over the long haul. Also the added bonus(and I said bonus, not to be confused with main reason I got it) is that I can have a helluva lot more fun with this truck then I can with any gasser.

Diesels can be more expensive, it depends on your situation and what you are able to do with that diesel, but yes they can be expensive.

There are quite a few things screwy with his statement.

As to his cold weather problems, quite a few of normal cold weather related problems can be solved by the owner just doing the most nominal thing(plugging it in, switching to synthetic oil etc), which based on all of his other comments I'm inclined to doubt was done and it wasn't said that it was done in his post either.

There are alot of people further up then where I gather he is from based on his handle and haven't had those issues. Something just isn't right here.

 

Oh, the debate.

I don't think I will really get the $6500.00 to pay for itself when I got the 6.4. I might break even in a few years, maybe.

The $6500.00 we spent (actually $13,000 since we got two of them) was money spent to make daily life better. Dragging work trailers all over the Southeast with gassers was fine. Dragging work trailers all over the Southeast with the diesel is better, so, I am happier day in and day out.

My truck has 88,000 miles. Our other truck is in the 50,000 mile range. No problems other than Ford's stupid radiator experiment. I have no reason to believe that our trucks won't last well into the 200,000 mile range. We'll see....

 

Did you really think it wouldn't happen with a thread title "compare diesel to gas"?

Some do, some don't it all depends on what your individual situation. I break even in 3 yrs, but I have well over 100k on my engines by then(and they are the original engines, most don't have work on them, but this one did because I had a little fun modding it, I haven't done that on the others that I've owned).

What I really don't like is when someone uses their own analysis to say a diesel or whatever vehicle doesn't pay for itself in this timeframe and they use their figures to do it. Yes it doesn't work with those figures, but those figures aren't my figures.

I'm not saying that you said it, you just gave me the first chance to get it out there(lucky you right?) and those that know me, know I don't like to miss an opening.

 

Sorry, but this person doesn't know jack about diesels and how to take care of them. I especially love the aluminum comment. LOL Really shows a severe lack of knowledge. I'm going to go ahead and call false on each one of those statements, especially that $30,000 average extra cost to keep a diesel on the road. That is a blatent lie.

 

there is nothing to add here except I want to smoke whatever he is.

 

It come down to what you want. You can justify any purchase if you try hard enough if you really wanted to you could do most things with a v6 and the right gearing. They did that years ago. As tex stated to some people it make more sense to get a diesel. I could get away with a honda civic 95% of the time. I could get away with out 4x4 99% of the time. I could do with out leather, power locks windows cd player etc 100% of the time. I know that having more in my case is better. I would not have gotten a 5.4 for any reason though. I might have considered a v10 if I had not bought a powerstroke.

 

As was stated before it really depends on the situation. I have a 5.4L F250 and have been completely satisfied with it. I have yet to feel that the truck was underpowered, but I haven't towed anything heavier than my 4K pound boat and I have racked up a whopping 29K miles in 6 years. In my case, a diesel would do me no good as I don't drive it enough to justify the extra cost. As for long life, 70K is nothing for either gas or diesel engines nowadays either can las a very long time even with big loads.

 

I hear you Tex. It's all good by me. The debate was certainly asked for and I enjoy reading the stuff.

You didn't accuse me of anything but I will say again, like Lubbock says, I just like the PSD better than a gass motor and worrying about the financial justification is not a game I like to play. Truthfully, I'll earn the $$ back as you say in a few years and I will be well into the 150,000 mile by the end of my third year with the truck. I just don't really care about the $$. My daily satisfaction is all the justification I need and by saying so I mean to give the OP another train of thought besides just dollars and cents.