Immigration is currently one of our biggest "hot button" issues,both legal and illegal immigration are of concern to many.
Another thread here,regarding a farmer and his ongoing battle with illegal immigrants has got me thinking what are the differences between legal and illegal immigration,and how did we come to our conclusions as to legality?
Conventional wisdom says that legal immigrants went through proper channels,perhaps through Ellis island in the east,or Angel island here on the west coast,and that they filled out there paperwork,waited there time and became either citizens or legal alien residents.
Illegals likely slipped in under cover of darkness,or across an isolated border.
We as a nation enacted these laws,made the decisions of how,what,where and whom were legal or could become legal,but can anyone argue that in the process of forming this nation,we often didnt have much concern for those who had occupied this country before us,those who are called Indians or Native Americans?
Did we get this land from those people in an honest transaction,at a fair price,or did we take there land in an unethical manner,frequently?
One could easily argue that as either trespassers or conquerors,we enacted laws that we had no right to,that quite probably were at odds with laws and custom of the Native people.....
Im posting this in the hope that it will cause some to ponder what is undoubtedly one of our most contentious issues,and consider this and other issues from differing perspectives.......
How do you think a man of say Apache heritage would view our sometimes emotional call for stopping illegal immigration,as he reflects on how WE immigrated illegally on HIS land?
For the record, i do feel that we must find a way to regulate immigration,and find solutions to the growing threat of violence,drug wars,and overwhelming of our infra-structure that are related to illegal immigration.
I also feel that an issue of this magnitude benefits greatly if one looks at it from several different perspectives....
One final plea,can we keep our personal feelings from erupting in a manner that causes this to be tossed into "the Club", and quite obviously naming names of a political nature will also get it clubbed,and i would prefer that this gets a wider response than club only posts do.........

 

My opinion as someone in the new generation coming up. (I'm 16)

I feel that a citizen is someone who was born here legally. I believe that if mommy and daddy run across the border and pop you out on American soil that does not make you a citizen of this great country. It makes you the illegal child of two people who are in this country illegally.

Texas fought for its independence and won. They then decided they wanted to join the United Sates. Parts of Texas were broken off into New Mexico, Kansas, Colorado, and Wyoming. Mexico = NO CLAIM

Oklahoma, Louisiana, etc. were bought from France for the sum of 15 million dollars. Mexico = NO CLAIM

California, Arizona, and the rest of New Mexico, and Nevada, etc. were won in the Mexican War. Mexico ceded that area to the United States. Mexico = NO CLAIM

Then Alaska was bought from the Russians. Mexico = NO CLAIM

East of the Mississippi was won from England in the Revolutionary war. Mexico = NO CLAIM

The northern boundary of Maine was established by the Adams-Onis teaty. Mexico = NO CLAIM

Hawaii was claimed for the United States by Captain James Cook. Mexico = NO CLAIM

Oregon country's boundaries were negotiated with Canada. Mexico = NO CLAIM

If I missed any part of the country let me know.

As for illegals in my country: GET OUT

I believe that if we allowed any ranchers or border residents to shoot illegals crossing the border we would have FAR less illegal immigrants here.

I have the phone number for the ICE programmed into my phone. I work hard. I pay taxes. I do not pay taxes to support a 15 year old illegal's 9th child. NO. Not happening.

They are stealing jobs from Americans. "Americans don't work hard" people say.

I call BS! I will out-work any Mexican. And I damn sure speak better English!

Do you know that under the new amnesty plan. YES AMNESTY. They would not have to learn ENGLISH for 10. Yes. 10!!! years after receiving amnesty.

Forget that crap. I'd rather see my taxes raised 50% and see every illegal removed and kept out of this country than see even 1 illegal given amnesty.

I work in construction/landscaping. People like me are a dying breed. Why? Mexicans are stealing all the work.

I've got a VERY simple solution for fixing our Mexico problem. Build a BIG wall between the US and Mexico. With 1 gate. Put razor tape at the top. Electrify the razor tape. Have illegals build it. Tell them wow this side looks nice. Why don't you look at the other side? They go to look at the other side. We shut the gate. Then any that won't go can get shot out of catapaults onto previously placed nets on the other side of the border.

On second thought... they are criminals. Leave out the nets.

One last note: Entering this country illegally is a CRIME.

Why are we even considering giving any kind of anything to CRIMINALS.

Say what you want about me, but that's my opinion and it's not changing.

 

7.3 rocket,you are missing my point! I dont recall hearing that any of these immigrants are actually trying to to turn us into the Northern province of Mexico.....
They are coming here because there country is in far worse economic shape than ours is,im not saying that we should allow this to happen,but IT IS WHY THEY ARE COMING OVER OUR BORDERS......You have completely allowed your emotions to keep you from seeing what i pointed out,which is one needs to look at things from several perspectives,but i suppose at 16 years of age, i would have considered the world wrong,and myself automatically right........Please consider re-reading my post,and analyze what ive said,minus the emotion,and if you would care to add some more to this discussion,feel free to!

 

BTW, im hoping to hear from Old93,cmpd,monsterbaby,Bdox,Andym,Ryan,and a whole bunch of others on this issue,im not suggesting that is either an easy issue or without controversy,just that its an important issue!

 

Why are they coming over the borders?

Because they can make many times more money here than they can in their country.

Many of them will come here and work and send the money back to Mexico.

 

Good job making sure you only referred to Mexicans there.

Although the most visable source of illegal immigration, our neighbors south of the border are far from the only problem. Large segments of eastern European/former Bloc immigrants are here without the proper paperwork or residency status.

If you're born here, you are a citizen, unless your parents specifically state they do not wish you to be, regardless of how you feel. If you were to use your opinion to try and oppress or otherwise lower the status of these people, you would be violating the laws of the country you so love. Since the law won't change, and you won't change...that makes you a criminal...if you judged those people differently or treated them as lesser beings than you...I'm not saying you do that.

There were large numbers of native peoples in the Americas at the time of European expansion, and over time I'm sure the majority of settlers and explorers were viewed with similar distaste. Settlements were made here in an effort for monarchys to create expansion and build power and wealth. Many of the settlers came here to find better lives. That isn't much different than someone jumping the fence looking for a new life here. As far as I can see, the only real difference is that Europeans brought technology and diseases and killed their way to control.

The US government was quite guilty of unethical and illegal practices while dealing with native peoples.

Remember, you say that Mexicans are stealing all the work, but the bottom line is that immigrants are willing to work hard jobs for less money and fewer benefits.

If you want to blame someone, blame the people HERE that HIRE people that are here illegally. Illegals wouldn't be so interested in coming here if there wasn't anyone willing to skimp operating costs and hire them.

 

ive worked with many illegal immigrants at the slaughter house some are nice people that got payed **** by the owner,they lived in a ****ty little motel probably made them feel like they were still in mexico,i somewhat felt bad for them,i myself had a co-janitor there that was 15 years old, they got payed 3.50 an hour and i got 8.50 an hour,the owner of the slaughter house owned the motel too so he would make his money back when they payed rent, i got fired from the place and was replaced by the 15 year old's brother

 

7.3,keep in mind that at 16 years of age,you have not met most of the worlds population,Mexican or otherwise,so you cant really state with any credibility that you can either work harder or speak better english than any of them...........

 

That is the biggest load of BS I have read on this site yet. I guarantee that ANY 16 year old kid can speak english better than ANY mexican illegal immigrant.

As for the "hard working" aspect, thats a load of crap too. Cheap a$$ employers look to fill thier pockets by hiring these illegals because they stand to benefit more from the situation. Pay the illegal less= more in his pocket. The illegal takes the lower pay since the employer can turn him into immigration at anytime to be deported, so in the end, it's all about the jerk who employs them. They work harder BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO.

Illegals choose the way they come over because;

1. they are too lazy to perform the required classes, speak the language or learn about the country's history in order to operate as a citizen of the country.

2. have no money to perform said duties.

3. Are foreign criminals

 

Pete,

Tell us how you really feel!

You ought to pony up the $ and join the Club....

 

For some of these people, it's the best shot, if not the ONLY shot they'll have at a comfortable life.

If you were so desperate to live well or support your family, wouldn't you consider all options?

I stand by what I said before. The true problem lies HERE. If people didn't hire illegals, there wouldn't be nearly as many of them, from any walk of life.

 

No thanks. I think I'd end up with high blood pressure if I did that. Can't be gettin that this early on in life.

I agree with that statement. There definitely needs to be harsher penalties put on employers of illegal immigrants.

 

Hawaii was not claimed by Captain James Cook for America, because not only was he English, but the US at that time was still an English Colony.

He claimed the islands for England, naming them after the Earl of Sandwich - Sandwich Islands.
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54-40 or fight was the battle cry to settle the border dispute between the Oregon Territory and Great Britain. Canada didn't exist in 1846, it was another English Colony.

A treaty ending the dispute was signed in 1846 between the US and Great Britain.
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After the Mexican War ended, the US paid the Mexican Gov't 15 million dollars for California and what became New Mexico Territory (today: AZ & NM).

In 1853, a border dispute erupted between Mexico and the US over the New Mexico Territory.

After surveying the land, the US Gov't paid the Mexican Gov't 10 million dollars in 1854 for what is known as the Gadsden Purchase.

You type MEXICO = no claim, but there are more illegals in the US from El Salvador than Mexico.

There are other illegals from China, Korea, The Philippines, and every other country on the planet.

I wonder what you would do it you lived in squalor, with no hope of ever improving yourself.

You'd prolly head for El Norte.

 

And Bill would know - he was there... ;-)

 

id do whatever it takes to support her family